Breeding Guppies and Mollies for Saltwater Predators?

[Aspect]

Hey all, I currently have a 420 gallon predator reef tank with sharks, eels, and a grouper. I'd love to have a live food source for them to have once in awhile. I read that guppies and mollies are okay to feed saltwater predators every once in awhile. I have a few questions if anyone here has experience breeding these FW fish I'd love some knowledge on the process. Thanks for any help.

 

[Slocke]

Hey all, I currently have a 420 gallon predator reef tank with sharks, eels, and a grouper. I'd love to have a live food source for them to have once in awhile. I read that guppies and mollies are okay to feed saltwater predators every once in awhile. I have a few questions if anyone here has experience breeding these FW fish I'd love some knowledge on the process. Thanks for any help.

@lion king do you breed mollies?
I had a 10 gallon at about 1.015 salinity and had feeder guppies breed well in there. Then I'd do a quick acclimation and they would generally survive for a few months in full salinity in the display. May have survived longer but I added some wrasse that ate them.

The 10 gallon was full of macroalage to help with the breeding too.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

I breed mollies in a 175 gallon rubbermaid , 80degrees , i keep the ph around 8 feed with autofeeder 5 times a day
its full of live plants,

 

[Aspect]

I breed mollies in a 175 gallon rubbermaid , 80degrees , i keep the ph around 8 feed with autofeeder 5 times a day
its full of live plants,

Do mollies do better if hotter enviroments in your opinion?

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

i think keep the temp at 80 and feeding heavily helps with yield.

 

[Aspect]

i think keep the temp at 80 and feeding heavily helps with yield.

Do you know if mollies and guppies can be kept together or will they fight?

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

Yes they can , fighting will occur if you have too many in too small of a tank.
also would not recommend the fancy guppies as the mollies tend to eat at them.
key is to use autofeeders and feed heavily

 

[lion king]

@lion king do you breed mollies?
I had a 10 gallon at about 1.015 salinity and had feeder guppies breed well in there. Then I'd do a quick acclimation and they would generally survive for a few months in full salinity in the display. May have survived longer but I added some wrasse that ate them.

The 10 gallon was full of macroalage to help with the breeding too.

No, it would take too long to grow them up to size I need. The cost of time, food, maintenance, etc would far exceed what I can buy them for.

In the wild both guppies and mollies are brackish fish and will do better in the home aquarium as brackish fish. Mollies averaging around 1.013, while guppies a bit lower, closer to 1.007. While they both can live at high salinity, it will likely lower their lifespan. The higher the salinity, the longer the gestation in breeding. They will both cannibalize their fry, separating is better although some just chance it with abundant cover. While they are fine at normal tropical temp range, they do prefer the higher end.

 

[lion king]

@lion king do you breed mollies?
I had a 10 gallon at about 1.015 salinity and had feeder guppies breed well in there. Then I'd do a quick acclimation and they would generally survive for a few months in full salinity in the display. May have survived longer but I added some wrasse that ate them.

The 10 gallon was full of macroalage to help with the breeding too.

In the wild; mollies have been noted to breed in sg as high as 1.017, and guppies at 1.009.

 

[Aspect]

No, it would take too long to grow them up to size I need. The cost of time, food, maintenance, etc would far exceed what I can buy them for.

In the wild both guppies and mollies are brackish fish and will do better in the home aquarium as brackish fish. Mollies averaging around 1.013, while guppies a bit lower, closer to 1.007. While they both can live at high salinity, it will likely lower their lifespan. The higher the salinity, the longer the gestation in breeding. They will both cannibalize their fry, separating is better although some just chance it with abundant cover. While they are fine at normal tropical temp range, they do prefer the higher end.

I didn't want to use them as a main staple food source, but I was thinking every couple of weeks I could throw a few in there as a treat.

 

[Slocke]

In the wild; mollies have been noted to breed in sg as high as 1.017, and guppies at 1.009.

Maybe my salinity was lower then but I certainly had a good amount of fry appear in the 10 gallon.

 

[Aspect]

Maybe my salinity was lower then but I certainly had a good amount of fry appear in the 10 gallon.

Guppies or Mollies? A buddy of mine had guppies in his 32 cube and he said in a couple months it was infested with them.

 

[Slocke]

Guppies or Mollies? A buddy of mine had guppies in his 32 cube and he said in a couple months it was infested with them.

Guppies. They were breeding alright but I'm not sure I ever bothered testing salinity as I was just occasionally tossing them into the eel tank. One issue I potentially foresee for you is that they all were at the top of the tank unless sick and were too small to interest my eels. Your grouper will probably lap them up but everything else might not be interested. Mollies may be better in those respects.


I think this is a month or two after adding. The coris wrasse killed most but the bigger ones survived.

 

[Aspect]

Guppies. They were breeding alright but I'm not sure I ever bothered testing salinity as I was just occasionally tossing them into the eel tank. One issue I potentially foresee for you is that they all were at the top of the tank unless sick and were too small to interest my eels. Your grouper will probably lap them up but everything else might not be interested. Mollies may be better in those respects.


I think this is a month or two after adding. The coris wrasse killed most but the bigger ones survived.

Huh didn't think about that. Sharks always come out when a new fish is added but I only add fish that are too big for them to eat. I figured they'd gulp up guppies like no tomorrow.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

For me, the question is do the live fish contain a high amount of thiaminase? That will cause thiamin deficiency issues if fed to much. Mollies and guppies are low in that, so that's good. Another issue I have is that *some* fish are difficult to train over to non-living food (not your fish, but some scorpionfish for example). Once trained over, offering them live food can cause them to backslide and start refusing non-living food. Kind of like giving a kid free choice between candy and spinach (grin).

@lion king I found this in my files from this summer. I heard about this study from the director of the facility, but I probably got the actual link from you (grin). But if not, it might be interesting:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362170658_Comparison_of_Whole_Blood_Fatty_Acid_Profiles_between_Lionfish_Pterois_spp_in_Wild_and_Managed_Care_Environments

Jay

 

[Gp!]

For me, the question is do the live fish contain a high amount of thiaminase? That will cause thiamin deficiency issues if fed to much. Mollies and guppies are low in that, so that's good. Another issue I have is that *some* fish are difficult to train over to non-living food (not your fish, but some scorpionfish for example). Once trained over, offering them live food can cause them to backslide and start refusing non-living food. Kind of like giving a kid free choice between candy and spinach (grin).

@lion king I found this in my files from this summer. I heard about this study from the director of the facility, but I probably got the actual link from you (grin). But if not, it might be interesting:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362170658_Comparison_of_Whole_Blood_Fatty_Acid_Profiles_between_Lionfish_Pterois_spp_in_Wild_and_Managed_Care_Environments

Jay

I read this but am not able to take much away from it.

Can you share your takeaway? Is there anything useful we can use from it for keeping lionfish today? Or is it building blocks for future conclusions?

 

[lion king]

I read this but am not able to take much away from it.

Can you share your takeaway? Is there anything useful we can use from it for keeping lionfish today? Or is it building blocks for future conclusions?

The main point is the necessity for the proper fats. Lions and eels, very similar in requirements; as well as other ambush predators like anglers, goins, robins, etc. The basic dead diet does not contain these fats, if you are feeding these species a dead only diet then include a fatty fish. I recommend wild salmon, as it is readily available and affordable. While I do recommend the high end predator formulas at the lfs that contain human grade ingredients, they even do not contain the necessary fats. I highly recommend including salmon in the diet of your eels. This is also one of the reasons I recommend guppies and mollies for a live fish source, the fat profile.

 

[lion king]

I read this but am not able to take much away from it.

Can you share your takeaway? Is there anything useful we can use from it for keeping lionfish today? Or is it building blocks for future conclusions?

People that are dead set on "training" their ambush predators to dead food, miss the point. It's about getting them to eat the necessary foods. Most dead diets will end up being high in thiaminese and lacking many necessary elements, especially the proper fats. This leads to a very early demise, moray eels in captivity only living a couple of years, mainly because of a poor diet.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

People that are dead set on "training" their ambush predators to dead food, miss the point. It's about getting them to eat the necessary foods. Most dead diets will end up being high in thiaminese and lacking many necessary elements, especially the proper fats. This leads to a very early demise, moray eels in captivity only living a couple of years, mainly because of a poor diet.

When we change fish over to non-living foods, we also supplement with vitamin E and Thiamin. The only longevity issues we still see is in lionfish and anglerfish and that is likely from over feeding and fatty acid profile issues. Everything else lives to expected longevity (or longer) with no live foods at all.

Jay

 

[jasonvan]

i still have a 50gal fresh water tank. my mollies and guppies get along well. i never thought of feeding guppies before. they do poop out alot of fry. i would say around 20 per month but i would say half die off within a week due to genetic issues.