Brew's 187g slice of the ocean

[User]

New fish! Woot! I vote dispar anthias. But I just love school of fish right now.

I tried 8 dispars a year ago and seven died from uronema in 3 days. The survivor is doing well, great coloration and activity but I need more to get her some friends.

@Brew12 I’m seeing your group of anthias in the acclimation box. Any tips on QT ? I’m a year behind the state of the art for anthia QT and I’m itching to get my school going. Could use some reading

 

[Brew12]

How do acclimation boxes work? How long do you keep them in there? Do you qt? I used a floating breeder once for my wrasse.

I love Octo aquatics stuff too.

It's a nice way to get the fish in the same system, sharing the same water, in a controller manner. When I was adding Tangs to my tank that had other Tangs in it, they stayed in the box for a few days. In this case everything was going to be very comptatable from an aggression standpoint so they spent one night and I released them after the morning feed.

@Brew12 I’m seeing your group of anthias in the acclimation box. Any tips on QT ? I’m a year behind the state of the art for anthia QT and I’m itching to get my school going. Could use some reading

I've talked with quite a few local reefers and several marine biologists along with reading a lot of scientific studies. I've killed a bunch of anthias and I've come to conclude it was the prophylactic treatments. My QT process for these involved raising salinity over 2 days, 1 night in the acclimation box, and they are swimming happily in the tank.

 

[Brew12]

New school.

 

[najer]

They look great.

 

[Brew12]

They look great.

Thanks!

 

[User]

It's a nice way to get the fish in the same system, sharing the same water, in a controller manner. When I was adding Tangs to my tank that had other Tangs in it, they stayed in the box for a few days. In this case everything was going to be very comptatable from an aggression standpoint so they spent one night and I released them after the morning feed.



I've talked with quite a few local reefers and several marine biologists along with reading a lot of scientific studies. I've killed a bunch of anthias and I've come to conclude it was the prophylactic treatments. My QT process for these involved raising salinity over 2 days, 1 night in the acclimation box, and they are swimming happily in the tank.

So, no disease mitigation whatsoever?

I think I remember you mentioning taking some things out of paulB’s immune tank playbook? This would be one of those things I guess.

I am very wary of putting stuff in my DT without full disease management. I’d hate to lose any livestock. But I’m torn because I really love the look of a dispar school and I’m still reeling over my 8 loses a year ago . Been holding off trying again because I don’t think I could handle losing more of those beautiful fish.

 

[Brew12]

So, no disease mitigation whatsoever?

I guess this is a matter of opinion. I'm working on an article that gets into the difference between a pathogen and a disease. Basically, a pathogen can cause a disease but a disease is when a pathogen causes symptoms.
It's impossible to remove all pathogens from our tanks. Instead, my disease mitigation will be proper stocking, redundant equipment, and high quality food with probiotics. I'm using LRS as my main feeding at night and switching to Cobalt Aquatic pellets that are boosted with probiotics post-production to keep them viable.

My experience, especially with anthias, is that in an attempt to eradicate certain pathogens it allows other pathogens to bloom into diseases. So that is the long way of saying that I am doing disease mitigation but not in the way I used to.

 

[Brew12]

I only have a few documents in pdf form handily available, but this one is a good read. There has been so much research done in the last 10 years that they are able to analyze which probiotics work best in different species and what each probiotic does to boost health.

 

[User]

I guess this is a matter of opinion. I'm working on an article that gets into the difference between a pathogen and a disease. Basically, a pathogen can cause a disease but a disease is when a pathogen causes symptoms.
It's impossible to remove all pathogens from our tanks. Instead, my disease mitigation will be proper stocking, redundant equipment, and high quality food with probiotics. I'm using LRS as my main feeding at night and switching to Cobalt Aquatic pellets that are boosted with probiotics post-production to keep them viable.

My experience, especially with anthias, is that in an attempt to eradicate certain pathogens it allows other pathogens to bloom into diseases. So that is the long way of saying that I am doing disease mitigation but not in the way I used to.

Good answer.

I really meant to say “prophylactic chemical based disease management” but seeing it spelled out like that gives me pause.

You know what training I have and why is approach my tank the way I do, but on some level- I’m trying to create a balanced environment, why is it I’m trying to sterilize everything that goes in there? It’s starting to make less sense to me.

It’s like humans. We treat when they are sick. We don’t treat them for every possible contagion for 2 weeks of every month. We and our immune systems do ok.

I enjoy that challenges of this hobby, but man, it feels like you need an advanced veterinarian degree to even get a handle on it all .

Edit- thanks for the probiotic link. Appreciate it.

 

[Brew12]

It’s like humans. We treat when they are sick. We don’t treat them for every possible contagion for 2 weeks of every month. We and our immune systems do ok.

Completely agree, it's just a little harder with fish. We and our immune systems do ok when we take care of ourselves, eat right, and manage the stress in our lives. Fish need that, too. For instance, if you put a fish or a person in a home full of bullies it will have a negative impact on their health.

I enjoy that challenges of this hobby, but man, it feels like you need an advanced veterinarian degree to even get a handle on it all .

If I had an advanced vet degree I'd probably be more likely to do treatments! Hobbyists don't take fish size, makeup of the pathogen, or any other factors that can impact dosing requirements. We just have a 1 size fits all method. That isn't a best practice.

Here’s the rub though- as a medically trained scientist, I’ve seen little real evidence that probiotics in humans even has a benefit to the general population. My cynicism alarm goes off when I see probiotics for fish, particularly when we know less about their immune systems than we do about our own.

I would agree that probiotics are typically not helpful in people, but its because we typically maintain healthy levels through normal diet. However, when treating using a heavy dose of an antibiotic like metronidazole, probiotic replacement is often required for human patients. We normally don't consider that when using the typical fish meds even when we are targeting internal parasites.

 

[Brew12]

 

[Brew12]

 

[User]

We have similar taste in fish it seems. Mag Foxface, YT, dispars.

Not too keen on blue tangs though.

I have a nice purple tang I nursed back from severe HLLE. Really bad. It’s head was practically pink. Beautiful deep purple now. a pink spot goby, a Randall’s goby. Have a Randall’s pistol shrimp too but he paired off with the pink spot. Little traitor. I have a tiger pistol in QT that didn’t molt before my vacation that’s going in- hopefully alpheus pistol will take the hint and let the bigger shrimp cohabit with the bigger goby. Or end up as pistol shrimp target practice, more likely.

 

[User]

I love that the dispars are schooling and it’s only been 3 days. That’s awesome.

I can’t wait to pick up my 8 new guys.

 

[Victoria M]

New school.

So beautiful!

 

[Victoria M]

You are really getting good with that camera.

 

[NY_Caveman]

Love these!

and of course these...

 

[Janci]

New school.

Great addition, @Brew12
Anthias make a tank look so much more lively.
Good luck with them

 

[najer]

Thanks for that probiotics link, very interesting.

 

[RichtheReefer21]

I have 1 of the 4 squam anthias I started with. Murderer on QT Street.