Broomtail wrasse laying on sand breathing heavy

[HankstankXXL750]

I have a broomtail wrasse over 1 year old and just started homemade no-pox for nitrate in their tank 7/6. Last 2-3 days the wrasse has been laying sideways on the sand and appears to be breathing heavy. Other fish appear to be fine. Panther grouper, clown grouper, lined dog-faced puffer, sunset wrasse, and marbles cat shark.
Nitrates at 50.8, salinity 1.025, temp 77.5.

Water change and adding No-pox only recent change to tank. Filter sponge between skimmer and return in sump plugged and skimmer was running wet with cup full, I just took care of that. See picture and video. Anyone with previous experience of this please let me know.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a broomtail wrasse over 1 year old and just started homemade no-pox for nitrate in their tank 7/6. Last 2-3 days the wrasse has been laying sideways on the sand and appears to be breathing heavy. Other fish appear to be fine. Panther grouper, clown grouper, lined dog-faced puffer, sunset wrasse, and marbles cat shark.
Nitrates at 50.8, salinity 1.025, temp 77.5.

Water change and adding No-pox only recent change to tank. Filter sponge between skimmer and return in sump plugged and skimmer was running wet with cup full, I just took care of that. See picture and video. Anyone with previous experience of this please let me know.

Agree, the breathing is labored. I do not see sign of parasites such as dots, etc
What is your ammonia-ph-nitrate-salinity and water temp levels?
I suggest:
Water change of 20% and increase oxygen via air stone. If you dont have air stone - walmart has a pump w/stone for about $10
Look for signs of itching/twitching/yawning/quick darting as warning signs of any conditions

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Agree, the breathing is labored. I do not see sign of parasites such as dots, etc
What is your ammonia-ph-nitrate-salinity and water temp levels?
I suggest:
Water change of 20% and increase oxygen via air stone. If you dont have air stone - walmart has a pump w/stone for about $10
Look for signs of itching/twitching/yawning/quick darting as warning signs of any conditions

Ph 8.0 Hanna checker, nitrate 50.8 Hanna HR, salinity 1.025, temp 76.6. Didn’t test ammonia as the tank is over 1 year old. None of the fish in the tank show any signs of parasites. All fish have been in this tank together over 6 months closer to a year. So unless a parasites been hanging out, I’m real careful of cross contamination with my tanks.
ORP 361 per Apex, but I don’t really know if that tells me anything about O2 levels.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a broomtail wrasse over 1 year old and just started homemade no-pox for nitrate in their tank 7/6. Last 2-3 days the wrasse has been laying sideways on the sand and appears to be breathing heavy. Other fish appear to be fine. Panther grouper, clown grouper, lined dog-faced puffer, sunset wrasse, and marbles cat shark.
Nitrates at 50.8, salinity 1.025, temp 77.5.

Water change and adding No-pox only recent change to tank. Filter sponge between skimmer and return in sump plugged and skimmer was running wet with cup full, I just took care of that. See picture and video. Anyone with previous experience of this please let me know.

It is breathing deeply, but not super fast. Its right eye is popped though.

Alcohol/vinegar dosing creates bacterial growth that strips oxygen from the water. Without a DO test, you really don't know where you are at, but wrasse have pretty high oxygen requirements, I would definitely add some strong air stones to the tank.

Jay

 

[HankstankXXL750]

It is breathing deeply, but not super fast. Its right eye is popped though.

Alcohol/vinegar dosing creates bacterial growth that strips oxygen from the water. Without a DO test, you really don't know where you are at, but wrasse have pretty high oxygen requirements, I would definitely add some strong air stones to the tank.

Jay

Thanks

 

[HankstankXXL750]

It is breathing deeply, but not super fast. Its right eye is popped though.

Alcohol/vinegar dosing creates bacterial growth that strips oxygen from the water. Without a DO test, you really don't know where you are at, but wrasse have pretty high oxygen requirements, I would definitely add some strong air stones to the tank.

Jay

Fish is in a XXL750 with a RS900 skimmer intake piped from outside as I originally had some Ph swings and was told CO2 could be the cause. Skimmer sump was running high as I just cleaned out some of the hair or briopsis Algea right before starting the dosing. I fixed that and the skimmer cup is not full now. Is that enough air exchange?
If not I have some battery air pumps I can put on.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

It is breathing deeply, but not super fast. Its right eye is popped though.

Alcohol/vinegar dosing creates bacterial growth that strips oxygen from the water. Without a DO test, you really don't know where you are at, but wrasse have pretty high oxygen requirements, I would definitely add some strong air stones to the tank.

Jay

Unfortunately by the time we got home from my mothers celebrating my wife’s Bday her wrasse passed.
should I dose aquavitro seed? Will this help. I put two battery powered air pumps on tonight and will get a different one tomorrow but just wondering if beneficial bacteria will assist in this.
Will this be an ongoing issue while dosing for nitrates or is it just at the beginning. I started 7/6 with 1/4 dose for No-pox.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Unfortunately by the time we got home from my mothers celebrating my wife’s Bday her wrasse passed.
should I dose aquavitro seed? Will this help. I put two battery powered air pumps on tonight and will get a different one tomorrow but just wondering if beneficial bacteria will assist in this.
Will this be an ongoing issue while dosing for nitrates or is it just at the beginning. I started 7/6 with 1/4 dose for No-pox.

Sorry to hear. If the fish's death was related to carbon dosing, adding more bacteria would not be the best thing to do. As I mentioned, you can't really know if this was the issue or not without a dissolved oxygen test (expensive) but I've got a suspicion that might be the case here. However, what was the timing? If you added the material and the fish began showing issues about 36 to 48 hours later, that lines up.

Jay

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Sorry to hear. If the fish's death was related to carbon dosing, adding more bacteria would not be the best thing to do. As I mentioned, you can't really know if this was the issue or not without a dissolved oxygen test (expensive) but I've got a suspicion that might be the case here. However, what was the timing? If you added the material and the fish began showing issues about 36 to 48 hours later, that lines up.

Jay

Yes started two days after dosing began.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Sorry to hear. If the fish's death was related to carbon dosing, adding more bacteria would not be the best thing to do. As I mentioned, you can't really know if this was the issue or not without a dissolved oxygen test (expensive) but I've got a suspicion that might be the case here. However, what was the timing? If you added the material and the fish began showing issues about 36 to 48 hours later, that lines up.

Jay

Don’t mean to be needy but have a couple of questions if you don’t mind. Before I started dosing (3 tanks) I messaged with Randy, and read through several threads. I saw mention of bacterial blooms and to watch for cyano which is one of the things I’m fighting, but didn’t catch potential oxygen reduction. I have added the largest air pumps I could get locally two rated at 80 gallon tanks in S1000 and XXL750, and one rated at 60 gallons in my XL525 with two 2-3” stones on each. I placed these stones in the refugium. Is that ok or should they go in the display?

I went a little nuts on the live sale so have several corals arriving Wednesday. Should I be looking at different housing for them or will it be ok to dip/acclimate and place in the tank?

my final question, is this bacterial bloom and possible oxygen deprivation an on going issue with carbon dosing or a “cycle” stage that it will move out of. And if it is a stage, will it return every time I increase the dosage until I achieve my desired results?

thank you in advance. My wife is devastated as this fish was the first one she picked out when we got back into the hobby.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Air pumps will help, but they should be in the tank, not the sump. Protein skimmers also help.
I’m not sure if this is something seen just at the start of carbon dosing, or if it continues during the whole process. I also don’t know why it hits some tanks and not others.
As far as the incoming corals, if your current corals are doing fine, they should be ok. I just wouldn’t add any new fish right now since we don’t know 100% what the issue is.
Without an oxygen meter, I’m just speculating here though….
Jay

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Thank you.
My two reefs don’t appear to have any issue, as far as the fish behavior is telling me. I’m not adding any fish to anything at this point. Have several in QT. But they can stay there.
Been fighting nitrates in this tank. I wouldn’t say that I over feed, but have messy eaters.
Run a RS900 skimmer, weekly or bi weekly large water changes, standard refugium in the Red Sea sump but growing grape caulurpa vs cheato, have a Algea scrubber but it was still
Climbing above 80 between water changes.
Have briopsis Algea, hair Algea and cyano. Been trying to beat them without using an antibacterial. Was going to go with bio-pellets, but read they can cause issues as well. So thought I would try this.
Thank you for your help.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Air pumps will help, but they should be in the tank, not the sump. Protein skimmers also help.
I’m not sure if this is something seen just at the start of carbon dosing, or if it continues during the whole process. I also don’t know why it hits some tanks and not others.
As far as the incoming corals, if your current corals are doing fine, they should be ok. I just wouldn’t add any new fish right now since we don’t know 100% what the issue is.
Without an oxygen meter, I’m just speculating here though….
Jay

Should I do a water change?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Should I do a water change?

Water changes are always a good choice, but in some cases, the amount of water that needs to be changed is pretty high (related to whatever issue you are trying to correct - in this case, nitrates at 80).

What antibiotic were you adding to combat the algae?

Jay

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Water changes are always a good choice, but in some cases, the amount of water that needs to be changed is pretty high (related to whatever issue you are trying to correct - in this case, nitrates at 80).

What antibiotic were you adding to combat the algae?

Jay

I have been doing approximately 70 gallon water changes every 7-14 days. Just did one on the 6th before I started dosing. Siphoned off the purple/black cyano? that was on top of the hair and or briopsis Algea. I have used chemiclean once months ago. I purchased another product which I can’t remember the name on a recent trip to Omaha which is my closest good lfs, but didn’t use it because I read that it is an anti-bacterial and could mess with the beneficial bacteria and cause problems.
So in an effort to take a more “natural” approach I chose between bio-pellet reactors and carbon dosing and decided to try carbon dosing.
currentlydosing 7ml of homemade no-pox 500ml white vinegar, 325 ml vodka, 125ml RODI.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have been doing approximately 70 gallon water changes every 7-14 days. Just did one on the 6th before I started dosing. Siphoned off the purple/black cyano? that was on top of the hair and or briopsis Algea. I have used chemiclean once months ago. I purchased another product which I can’t remember the name on a recent trip to Omaha which is my closest good lfs, but didn’t use it because I read that it is an anti-bacterial and could mess with the beneficial bacteria and cause problems.
So in an effort to take a more “natural” approach I chose between bio-pellet reactors and carbon dosing and decided to try carbon dosing.
currentlydosing 7ml of homemade no-pox 500ml white vinegar, 325 ml vodka, 125ml RODI.

I’m more of a fish disease guy, the reef folks here are better able to offer you opinions on nitrate control.
Jay

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I’m more of a fish disease guy, the reef folks here are better able to offer you opinions on nitrate control.
Jay

Yes and I appreciate it. Your answers were informative. I’ll hit Randy’s forum for some further insight on the carbon dosing.