BRS INVESTIGATES would B proud!

[Glenner’sreef]

Common sense is a really big deal to me in this hobby. But it piggybacks on research and science.
This forum is seriously a gold mine of trial and error, research and science and experience. When you have a question, you ask it in the form of a post. Fellow hobbyists immediately scan their mental hard drives and begin to make sense and bring clarity to something that you’ve had trouble piecing together.
I was truly impressed with Ryan and Randy when they began BRS Investigates.
I recall one episode where they setup half a dozen tanks and set out to determine “How often we should change out our filter socks”?
That very practical research where you compare one tank over another. In this case they changed out filter socks after 3 days 5 days 6 days etc and test after each to conclude the very best time to change them. Brilliant!
There are those in this hobby (you know who you are) who have experienced things repetitiously to the point that you KNOW! what’s right. You KNOW which way to turn. You KNOW what product to buy. Etc. etc.
All of that being said, I believe I have some proven wisdom to pass along to you and look forward to hearing your feedback.
THE TOPIC: The importance of sand and gravel vacuuming.
So in the spirit of BRS Investigates, I have literally worked on and tested and serviced hundreds of saltwater swim and reef tanks for the past 18 months. (A little post retirement gig) One thing that I implemented was sand and gravel vacs on each and every tank that I attended to. Some tanks needed it and some tanks really needed it! To cut to the chase. There’s an old saying, “The proof is in the pudding”
I can’t tell you how many aquarium owners have told me how they used to lose fish often but (not patting myself on the back) since you started maintaining the tank, no fish have died. I really liked hearing that but even more I thought this is a seriously valid and important practice. I would vacuum my sand anyhow if I wasn’t doing this. But having this little side job in my retirement has taught me on a science level the importance of gravel and sand vac. And the feedback from these clients, many clients are proof. What say you?

 

[LRT]

If I had sand I'd pull it out once a month and rinse it only because I can't look at dirty sand in my system.
Why not barebottom and as much ocean rock you can pack in your system is my thoughts but we all do have our preferences.
Its funny my wife's daughter literally just brought this up 5 minutes ago.
I cant think of an lfs around me that has sand in any of there frag or coral tanks.

 

[Staghorn]

Common sense is a really big deal to me in this hobby. But it piggybacks on research and science.
This forum is seriously a gold mine of trial and error, research and science and experience. When you have a question, you ask it in the form of a post. Fellow hobbyists immediately scan their mental hard drives and begin to make sense and bring clarity to something that you’ve had trouble piecing together.
I was truly impressed with Ryan and Randy when they began BRS Investigates.
I recall one episode where they setup half a dozen tanks and set out to determine “How often we should change out our filter socks”?
That very practical research where you compare one tank over another. In this case they changed out filter socks after 3 days 5 days 6 days etc and test after each to conclude the very best time to change them. Brilliant!
There are those in this hobby (you know who you are) who have experienced things repetitiously to the point that you KNOW! what’s right. You KNOW which way to turn. You KNOW what product to buy. Etc. etc.
All of that being said, I believe I have some proven wisdom to pass along to you and look forward to hearing your feedback.
THE TOPIC: The importance of sand and gravel vacuuming.
So in the spirit of BRS Investigates, I have literally worked on and tested and serviced hundreds of saltwater swim and reef tanks for the past 18 months. (A little post retirement gig) One thing that I implemented was sand and gravel vacs on each and every tank that I attended to. Some tanks needed it and some tanks really needed it! To cut to the chase. There’s an old saying, “The proof is in the pudding”
I can’t tell you how many aquarium owners have told me how they used to lose fish often but (not patting myself on the back) since you started maintaining the tank, no fish have died. I really liked hearing that but even more I thought this is a seriously valid and important practice. I would vacuum my sand anyhow if I wasn’t doing this. But having this little side job in my retirement has taught me on a science level the importance of gravel and sand vac. And the feedback from these clients, many clients are proof. What say you?

The fact that they’re not losing fish is probably because of the level of attention you are giving the aquariums. In order to determine if vacuuming the sand is keeping the fish from dying you would have to run some Controll tanks where you don’t vaccum the sand and still do everything else your doing to the other tanks. If you were willing to do that and also willing to test and record the differences in nutrient levels and other factors that may be effected then your really could have an investigates on your hands. Your reasearch would be invaluable to the community. In the mean time keep up the good work and thanks for saving some fish.

 

[blasterman]

If BRS investigated gravel vac'ing they would conclude it removes valuable trace elements and you need to buy their trace elements and specially treated siphon.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

If I had sand I'd pull it out once a month and rinse it only because I can't look at dirty sand in my system.
Why not barebottom and as much ocean rock you can pack in your system is my thoughts but we all do have our preferences.
Its funny my wife's daughter literally just brought this up 5 minutes ago.
I cant think of an lfs around me that has sand in any of there frag or coral tanks.

Really good point LRT. The tanks in lfs that often times do have sand are tanks with snails, crabs, starfish, gobies and shrimp. Just a guess but I’d bet that half of them don’t get vac’d frequently. Also going barebottom tank has become really popular in the last decade I think because of coral success. But definitely making my point. Hobbyist just don’t won’t yuck in their dt.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

The fact that they’re not losing fish is probably because of the level of attention you are giving the aquariums. In order to determine if vacuuming the sand is keeping the fish from dying you would have to run some Controll tanks where you don’t vaccum the sand and still do everything else your doing to the other tanks. If you were willing to do that and also willing to test and record the differences in nutrient levels and other factors that may be effected then your really could have an investigates on your hands. Your reasearch would be invaluable to the community. In the mean time keep up the good work and thanks for saving some fish.

I was hoping someone would bring this up! Their have been a good percentage of the tanks that have either not had this done often or not done at all. And so quickly I knew exactly which field techs were gravel vacuuming and which were not. Their are 200 tanks monthly that need serviced. I do 4 or 5 per day, three days a week. 4 other guys are servicing as well. No barebottom tanks and vacuuming isn’t always done by everyone, it is with me. Consistent vacuuming seems to be the missing link. Good observation.

 

[Tamberav]

I like sand sleeping wrasses so I would never go bare bottom unless the tank was too small to keep them.

I stir the sand bed and change the sock as I don’t own a gravel vac (lol what!). I used to have a diamond goby do it before he jumped.

Once or twice a year I rip clean as I also don’t like dirty looking sand beds either and it feels great to see all that crud come out.

My tank is pretty low maintenance besides the sand.

Can you recommend a good working gravel vac?

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I like sand sleeping wrasses so I would never go bare bottom unless the tank was too small to keep them.

I stir the sand bed and change the sock as I don’t own a gravel vac (lol what!). I used to have a diamond goby do it before he jumped.

Once or twice a year I rip clean as I also don’t like dirty looking sand beds either and it feels great to see all that crud come out.

My tank is pretty low maintenance besides the sand.

Can you recommend a good working gravel vac?

I just got a lid for Father’s Day from my kids for my 180g. And my wife got me two Fairy Wrasses. Didn’t want them jumping! But yes, any simple syphon vac will work. Estimate how deep your tank is and buy accordingly. The syphon tubes are anywhere from 1” and 8” long to a 2” tube @ 3’ to 4’ feet long. Get the one that will keep your arms out of the water. Great feedback.

 

[brandon429]

Here’s one thing brs needs to investigate and then update all their vids: give your readers a chance to add sand that has been pre rinsed so days of silt clouding doesn’t wreck the start of the system


they say on their videos on tube that pre rinsing destroys the integrity of the wet pack sand


but we have thousands of aquarists who rinse sand in established, aged reefs, so how is pre rinsing bad at the start

it doesn’t destroy anything other than silt to pre rinse. I have twenty links handy right now for wrecked start tanks who didn’t rinse, because they were told by brs it’s bad.


brs, Advise your readers only after doing research, and anyone who researches clean rinse prep starts will find its ideal in every way no clouded, non rinse preps.

it’s important to tell readers their new sand might not clear up after a few days, like the directions said on the bag. readers need to know that when using new wet pack sand, to pre rinse in tap water not using dechlorinator is ideal, harmless, and starts the tank off ideally. Do the final rinse in ro water to evacuate tap if concerned about things.


lastly, aquabiomics shocked us when they found no cycling bacteria in the wet pack sand anyway, so what harm would rinsing be at any stage

 

[Jimmyneptune]

If you have sand sleeper wrasses you can have a container with just sand in it, a plastic tub. To get them to first accept The tub when you introduce the wrasse to the tank have a mound of sand in the corner of tank and a designated spot with the tub on the side with sand in it. Sand sleepers are generally disoriented when first introduced to a new system and will struggle to hide. They will find the corner sand right away. Once they get used to the tank you can Put the tub upright and remove the corner sand and just have the tub and a bare bottom tank.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Here’s one thing brs needs to investigate and then update all their vids: give your readers a chance to add sand that has been pre rinsed so days of silt clouding doesn’t wreck the start of the system


they say on their videos on tube that pre rinsing destroys the integrity of the wet pack sand


but we have thousands of aquarists who rinse sand in established, aged reefs, so how is pre rinsing bad at the start

it doesn’t destroy anything other than silt to pre rinse. I have twenty links handy right now for wrecked start tanks who didn’t rinse, because they were told by brs it’s bad.


brs, stop making things up please. Advise your readers only after doing research, and anyone who researches clean rinse prep starts will find its ideal in every way no clouded, non rinse preps.

it’s important to tell readers their new sand might not clear up after a few days, like the directions said on the bag. readers need to know that when using new wet pack sand, to pre rinse in tap water not using dechlorinator is ideal, harmless, and starts the tank off ideally. Do the final rinse in ro water to evacuate tap if concerned about things.


lastly, aquabiomics shocked us when they found no cycling bacteria in the wet pack sand anyway, so what harm would rinsing be at any stage

Is this “live sand” you’re talking about? Because live sand normally has a small pack of water clarifier that clears the cloudiness in a day. Great stuff as the dust particles from the sand get weighed down and either get caught in filter socks or sinks.

 

[brandon429]

It’s does not always work though, per these examples, and brs does not tell folks about this likelihood

​

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/so-i-didnt-rinse.592624/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sandbed-stirred-up.544852/#post-5723606

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/very-cloudy-water-after-sand-and-rock.559386/#post-5735864
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/question-about-vacuuming-sand-bed.616059/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-milky-cloudy.616519/




10 days, still won't settle and clouds fully
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cloudy-tank.576835/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bummer-could-use-some-help.558301/
and pre rinsing is perfect, per these examples

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

so, brs is wrong. *there cannot be harm in pre rinsing to avoid that mess, if we have thousands of folks rinsing existing aged reefs*

brs needs to simply tell folks: pre rinsing in untreated tap water has been extensively tested, and documented, and where practical is ideal to not rinsing in every setting. A new aquarium is not benefitted whatsoever by keeping disgusting silt that can easily be upwelled even after settling (per above)


when brs says they investigate, I don’t think they investigate at all.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

If you have sand sleeper wrasses you can have a container with just sand in it, a plastic tub. To get them to first accept The tub when you introduce the wrasse to the tank have a mound of sand in the corner of tank and a designated spot with the tub on the side with sand in it. Sand sleepers are generally disoriented when first introduced to a new system and will struggle to hide. They will find the corner sand right away. Once they get used to the tank you can Put the tub upright and remove the corner sand and just have the tub and a bare bottom tank.

Good thinking. Hey let’s face it, we’re here to make these eco systems livable for the inhabitants. Smart move on your part.

 

[Jimmyneptune]

You have to take what everyone says with a grain of salt. Including BS. I mean BRS

 

[Glenner’sreef]

It’s does not always work though, per these examples, and brs does not tell folks about this likelihood

​

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/so-i-didnt-rinse.592624/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sandbed-stirred-up.544852/#post-5723606

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/very-cloudy-water-after-sand-and-rock.559386/#post-5735864
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/question-about-vacuuming-sand-bed.616059/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-milky-cloudy.616519/




10 days, still won't settle and clouds fully
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cloudy-tank.576835/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bummer-could-use-some-help.558301/
and pre rinsing is perfect, per these examples

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

so, brs is wrong. *there cannot be harm in pre rinsing to avoid that mess, if we have thousands of folks rinsing existing aged reefs*

brs needs to simply tell folks: pre rinsing in untreated tap water has been extensively tested, and documented, and where practical is ideal to not rinsing in every setting. A new aquarium is not benefitted whatsoever by keeping disgusting silt that can easily be upwelled even after settling (per above)


when brs says they investigate, I don’t think they investigate at all.

Wow! Thanks for looking into this.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

You have to take what everyone says with a grain of salt. Including BS. I mean BRS

“A grain of salt” love it!

 

[Jimmyneptune]

If you watch BRS videos they will tell you about their mistakes as well. A classic is “Vertex Skimmers.”

 

[Glenner’sreef]

So if someone has sand or gravel and they vacuum and change water at the same time, they like myself are firsthand seeing the benefits. But in my case, I hear sincere people comment on the present day success of their tanks. I have to draw a conclusion somewhere. And vacuuming seems to be the smoking gun.

 

[Tamberav]

If you have sand sleeper wrasses you can have a container with just sand in it, a plastic tub. To get them to first accept The tub when you introduce the wrasse to the tank have a mound of sand in the corner of tank and a designated spot with the tub on the side with sand in it. Sand sleepers are generally disoriented when first introduced to a new system and will struggle to hide. They will find the corner sand right away. Once they get used to the tank you can Put the tub upright and remove the corner sand and just have the tub and a bare bottom tank.

I have a ton of sand sleepers. They won’t even fit in a tub together lol At least not peacefully. Two of them grow to 9 and 10 inches lol I am sure they won’t get that huge in captivity but they are getting bulky.

I think it would be risky to do with more fragile leopards and Anampses wrasse but probably fine for those with the more popular/common sand sleepers that are pretty forgiving.

Bonus is the sand harbors spaghetti worms which the Copperband loves.

The sand would never stay in the tub either. My bigger wrasses throw it all over the tank and buries corals! It’s actually my kuiters leopard who is the worst offender of tossing sand everywhere. I would not have thought a leopard could be so destructive.

She will actually dive into the sand even when not sleeping and flop around like a beached whale to toss it all over. She does this to stir up pods and worms.

 

[brandon429]

By the way


i don’t think there’s any malice involved in anything brs posts lol. This is nerds nerding on one another, I’m sure someone has berated an online buddy for moving his minecraft blocks inappropriately just the same, I have after all heard what happens when a ten year old with a PlayStation headset gets into the game. It’s harsher than sand rinsers doing battle.