Bryopsis Cure: My Battle With Bryopsis Using Fluconazole

[Chubby]

Hola, great to see that there is hope out there for GHA/Bryprosis. So many people have quit the industry because of this. Quick question. Is the dosage one SINGLE dose in the amount of 20mg per gallon of water at let it sit for 14 days or ne SINGLE dose in the amount of 20mg per gallon of water once per day for 14 days?

 

[puffy127]

single dose

 

[hart24601]

only other thing I can add is that there were no other additions to the tanks livestock. no new corals and no new fish or critters were added.

I just want to report, I does an entire cap of reef flux, 200mg, in my SPS jar. I have no fish so figured why not. I noticed 0 change in coral. Not even a change in PE. I have done 100% water change at the 1 week mark and put in another cap. Snails and coral act like nothing has changed. Only thing is all algae has died off except coralline.

 

[hart24601]

My question that you avoided... "Do we also both agree that there "May" be the possibility that the Flucon itself caused the bleaching? Or do you have definitive proof what caused the bleaching?"
You sent me a link to Mayos opinion instead.

I don't believe anyone here can or did offer definitive proof yet. Just because I may be an Architect specializing in the design/construction does not mean an engineer of buildings is an expert in the same. Same goes for a human doctor/Marine Biologist. Having said that, I appreciate what Mayo has posted but its only his opinion or theory not proof, interesting theory it is though. However, at the end of the day, there is no substantial proof one way or the other and I knew that going in and not blaming anyone or anything at this point. Just reporting the facts on the ground. Please don't shoot down the messenger just because I am sharing some negative results. I have NEVER had a bleaching event until dosing Flucon. I figured we can try and learn something from this but when you and Mayo automatically assume and shout >>>contaminant<<< rather than the med. itself or a mechanism we don't understand. I have to question the motives here.

There is no one else in this elephants room that wants this to work more than me. However, my results here cant be ignored or written off as a "Contaminant" . BTW I don't think others reading and seeing the pics are. I see from a few peoples comments that this apparently happened to others as well to some extent or another. Time will tell if more of the colonies actually die. However, due to the super stable system that I have set up, i am confident that things will turn around for most of the bleached corals and they will not die. My red dragon died but it does appear that since i started skimming and water changes as well as GFO that things are stabilizing.

The part that bothers me a little aside from getting between a love triangle between you an Mayo, lol (meant to be funny) is that both of you are speaking about this med as if its 100% impossible for the med. itself cause bleaching in SPS. Which to me, without proof to substantiate raises a brow. Fact is NO ONE really knows what happened? It could have been the SPS devil that came down and spiked the medicine bowl in order to disguise his sinister plan, lol. NO ONE KNOWS... that's the point weather you want to admit it or not.

I am very sad to see your bleaching, and I do hope can find out what happened.

Out of curiosity, what would you accept as definitive proof the flux didn't cause bleaching?

 

[coralcruze]

I am very sad to see your bleaching, and I do hope can find out what happened.

Out of curiosity, what would you accept as definitive proof the flux didn't cause bleaching?

Scientific proof. i knew going it that there were none to date and like many others here decided to go forward none the less. i dont regret it howeverif there is something going on with even 10% of people who tried it than either the something is off with the med or the process with which we administer it.

 

[hart24601]

Scientific proof. i knew going it that there were none to date and like many others here decided to go forward none the less. i dont regret it howeverif there is something going on with even 10% of people who tried it than either the something is off with the med or the process with which we administer it.

I am seriously not trying to be a jerk or anything, just curious! How do you define scientific proof? I mean you have the drug's mechanism of action and the biochemical process by which it works in algae. Not only that but there are reports of many SPS tanks that have had no issues. Take my example of the massive dose in my little SPS jar, that tiny environment is controlled as you can get, only a powerhead and heater, no other systems or dosing. I even have a JF lepto like you have that showed no difference at all pre/post flux. What proof exactly would it take?

 

[coralcruze]

You know what they say about people that say they are not trying to be jerks...right. i too am not trying to be a jerk

Give me a break... Everyone here knows this is an experiment. In fact so do you and your 'JAR'. Come on, we ARE the science. you also have many people reporting problems with SPS... Are you ignoring that? Show me a single scientific paper on this subject as it pertains to the use of this medication on Bryopsis and how safe it is on SPS corals. I havent been able to find it nor anyone here provide it. have a good day...lol.

 

[coralcruze]

Po4 was tested last night and was still high. i changed out the GFO to lower po4 some more. no3 still on target sitting steady on 5 ppm as tested with red sea and hanna respectively. after only running gfo with new media overnight i can already start to see better polyp extension on the bleached colonies.

 

[coralcruze]

Just wondering if anyone here is targeting 'redfield ratios' in conjunction with medicating thier tanks. i am particularly interested in feedback from sps predomanant reef keepers.

 

[hart24601]

You know what they say about people that say they are not trying to be jerks...right. i too am not trying to be a jerk

Give me a break... Everyone here knows this is an experiment. In fact so do you and your 'JAR'. Come on, we ARE the science. you also have many people reporting problems with SPS... Are you ignoring that? Show me a single scientific paper on this subject as it pertains to the use of this medication on Bryopsis and how safe it is on SPS corals. I havent been able to find it nor anyone here provide it. have a good day...lol.

So you are looking for a scientific paper on Fluconazole and SPS, how many species, just acros? We need to be sure because SPS and LPS are meaningless terms outside the hobby. What sample size are you looking for? Are you after phenotypic results in the data, that is color change or bleaching, or looking at things like possible gene expression changes? What would satisfy you?

As for gathering meta data, which we are, it's important to try and normalize the data. That is we might have 100 people with SPS that have used this without incident, and 3 that noticed bleaching colors. However if one was to group 100 SPS keeps over 3 weeks you might see those 3 people (give or take) experience bleaching or losing coral. Of course we are not being that rigorous with our collection, however it's good to keep in mind along with confirmation bias, where we might hear about 1000 people that have 0 issues, but 3 that have the same issue we had so we focus on those cases and exclude the others.

The most obvious case, as others have pointed out, is that killing the algae results in a nutrient dump into the tank which impacts coral. More algae killed = more nutrient release and the impact would probably vary depending on the nutrient load of the tank. ULNS could possibly be impacted more with the release of these compounds, however that isn't the Fluconazole directly. It's also possible that there is an improvement in water clarity which results great light transmission and bleaching, or a combination.

It is good that you and other have pointed this out, as anyone attempting to remove algae via any mechanism be it flux or other algaecide should be aware of potential indirect issues that can result.

 

[Rodrod]

:-/

 

[Rodrod]

My concern is not weather it works or not. But the potential of antifungal resistance of human/animal/zoonotic pathogenic fungi due to innapropriate use of a prescription antifungal.

 

[hart24601]

My concern is not weather it works or not. But the potential of antifungal resistance of human/animal/zoonotic pathogenic fungi due to innapropriate use of a prescription antifungal.

That is a good question. What do you think about this doctor? It would seem this drug is used far less than antibiotics used in other livestock like cattle and typical commercial aquaculture but would he interesting to hear what the good physician thinks.

 

[Jose Mayo]

That is a good question. What do you think about this doctor? It would seem this drug is used far less than antibiotics used in other livestock like cattle and typical commercial aquaculture but would he interesting to hear what the good physician thinks.

There is not much difference, in relation to this concern, within the hobby, with any of the other medicines, also useful for humans, approved for use in veterinary, agricultural and aquaculture.

However, the volume of drugs used in this hobby, has no term of comparison or significance, compared to the proportions and volumes used in these other purposes.

Even the human use of drugs is already a major concern in its ecotoxicological effects, but nature has been able to respond to these challenges precisely through the mechanisms of degradation and resistance, which is not, from this point of view, bad news .

Best regards

 

[NCreefguy]

There is not much difference, in relation to this concern, within the hobby, with any of the other medicines, also useful for humans, approved for use in veterinary, agricultural and aquaculture.

However, the volume of drugs used in this hobby, has no term of comparison or significance, compared to the proportions and volumes used in these other purposes.

Even the human use of drugs is already a major concern in its ecotoxicological effects, but nature has been able to respond to these challenges precisely through the mechanisms of degradation and resistance, which is not, from this point of view, bad news .

Best regards

Exactly. From what I understand the agricultural industry uses hundreds of thousands of gallons of anti-fungal meds including Fluconazole each and every year and have for decades on the crops that we all eat(or most of us). Yet you'll have someone who comes in this forum instead of an AG forum thinking our 200mgs is going to kill us all.

You would think they would be far more worried about the emissions from their cars or how their old tires are disposed of or what their cleaning products at home contain. Nope, that would require them worrying about themselves first before everyone else and that's not what those people do.

 

[NCreefguy]

My concern is not weather it works or not. But the potential of antifungal resistance of human/animal/zoonotic pathogenic fungi due to innapropriate use of a prescription antifungal.

It's not innapropriate use. It's prescribed for use on fish. I have fish.

Is Vodka made for dosing in fish tanks? Some would consider it alcohol abuse.

 

[Maggie321]

It's not innapropriate use. It's prescribed for use on fish. I have fish.

Is Vodka made for dosing in fish tanks? Some would consider it alcohol abuse.

Even Viagra was originally meant for use other than it's main purpose now. Just saying.

 

[NCreefguy]

Even Viagra was originally meant for use other than it's main purpose now. Just saying.

Hahaha I had to laugh at our examples of alcohol and Viagra.


Yeah there are sooo many things we use in our hobby (and everyday life) that wasn't it's original purpose. I mean not that I would rig something up just to make it work or anything like that. Okay maybe I would.

 

[Rostratum]

If you use Viagra on SPS corals, do you get better Polyp Extension?[emoji1][emoji38]

 

[coralcruze]

It's not innapropriate use. It's prescribed for use on fish. I have fish.

Is Vodka made for dosing in fish tanks? Some would consider it alcohol abuse.

do you remember when we used dog heartworm med to kill red bugs on sps 10 years ago? if it works and has no ill effects on corals than why not use the stuff? I did and luckily that time I did not have any bleaching.