Bryopsis or Hair Algae or...
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Oldsalt01
Well-Known Member
Almost certainly GHA, or a form thereof. Best check is to pull out a clump. If it collapses to a slime ball, it is, if it holds it's shape then it's something else. I'm betting on GHA tho. There are a variety of ways to get rid of it, but you have to look at what the root cause is, and that's almost always excessive nutrients. I'm willing to bet that your Nitrates and/or Phosphates are elevated, and that this is a fairly new system. The absolute best GHA controller I've ever found are Lawnmower Blennies, the second best are tuxedo urchins (but they tend to be bulldozers), but you still have to address the nutrients.
You can't imagine the number of fully invaded tanks who would pay dearly to go back in time to this phase, early, before takeover, where you could spot kill it in 24 hours and be done
I can tell it's been kept after
That behavior alone separates your reef will from 90% of the fully invaded
That last ten percent is just a little cheat to make it stop growing back for a while
advice from sheer years in algae work threads: separate what you do to prevent algae from what you do to kill it when it arises anyway
you are incredibly close to having no algae, can't wait to see how it unfolds. In our cure threads, its as simple as siphoning up the sand areas and take sand with it and algae, rinse sand in hot tap water (kill step for sand areas) and then simply lift the rocks out of the tank or drain the water level down to expose the target, and simply kill the algae off the rock using a number of methods.
Reefs grow algae that have no nutrient problems
Consider simply killing it. You can simply opt out of the invasion
The greatest source of true nutrient issues isn't any test reading of your water
It's the sandbed if it's cloudy when disturbed. Ideally you'd undo that, put back a clean reef on clean sand and simply opt out, but most won't. It's against too many rules to not allow the algae to control the tanks direction, only very few are fed up enough to just not grow any algae.
I can tell it's been kept after
That behavior alone separates your reef will from 90% of the fully invaded
That last ten percent is just a little cheat to make it stop growing back for a while
advice from sheer years in algae work threads: separate what you do to prevent algae from what you do to kill it when it arises anyway
you are incredibly close to having no algae, can't wait to see how it unfolds. In our cure threads, its as simple as siphoning up the sand areas and take sand with it and algae, rinse sand in hot tap water (kill step for sand areas) and then simply lift the rocks out of the tank or drain the water level down to expose the target, and simply kill the algae off the rock using a number of methods.
Reefs grow algae that have no nutrient problems
Consider simply killing it. You can simply opt out of the invasion
The greatest source of true nutrient issues isn't any test reading of your water
It's the sandbed if it's cloudy when disturbed. Ideally you'd undo that, put back a clean reef on clean sand and simply opt out, but most won't. It's against too many rules to not allow the algae to control the tanks direction, only very few are fed up enough to just not grow any algae.
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kswan
Active Member
I have been steady at 4 and .04 nitrate and phosphate respectively. I’m going to clean it out today and will post another pic. Should I try to further lower nutrients? This is my first tank and is coming up on a year old.
Oldsalt01
Well-Known Member
Great advice from Brandon. But you may have missed the point I made about nutrient uptake by the algae BEFORE they become accurately measurable. It is possible to have increased nitrate/phosphate levels not showing in your tests simply because the algae uses it before it becomes detectable. Once you have the algae dealt with by whatever method u choose, you still have to figure out what's causing elevated nutrients. Over-feeding, sponges in the filter, sand or rock issues, over-populating the tank, extended lighting schedule, high TDS in the RO/DI water for top-off, to name a few causes, can all contribute to algae growth, singly or in combination. Figuring out which is the cause will go a long way to battling and controlling nusance algae. You don't want to strive for NO nutrients as your corals and critters do depend on some nutrient levels to thrive. Don't panic. Your GHA issues are fairly minor from what I see in ur pics.
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kswan
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Based on the pics do you think it is definitely GHA? At the moment it is not a major problem. I’m just trying to make sure I know what I’m dealing with to help stay ahead of it. I don’t think I have enough to impact testing levels but I could be wrong...
Ive had minor bouts with GHA but my Naso loves it and keeps in check. Alittle here and there to me is no big deal as long as some fish benefit from it and its not everywhere
Oldsalt01
Well-Known Member
99.9% sure it's GHA, but not the worst case I've seen, by a long shot. The pics appear to be classic GHA. It looks like u r managing it fairly well. Personally, when I was dealing with an outbreak I found the only sure way to keep from spreading it was to siphon it out while I pulled it off. Then I got a Starry Blenny, and he took over the cleanup. Unfortunately, I had to trade him in as he grew too big for the tank (too well fed!). I still have a very small amount in my tank but with religious H2O changes and filter maintenance, it's no longer a problem.
Oh, and when I said "sponges in the filter" I meant reticulated foam sponges, as opposed to live sponges, lol. Reticulated foam can be a significant nutrient repository because no matter how much you try, you just can't clean them effectively.
Oh, and when I said "sponges in the filter" I meant reticulated foam sponges, as opposed to live sponges, lol. Reticulated foam can be a significant nutrient repository because no matter how much you try, you just can't clean them effectively.
GHA is the generic name for a wide variety of algae that present in filamentous form, but with distinct metabolism and constitution, in their cellular organizations. A first information, for its better identification, would be to verify if the algal filaments are siphonous (without real cell division), or multicellular (with well-defined cell division, like a "train" of cells). In the first case, algae belonging to the family Bryopsidales (Bryopsis, Derbesia, etc.) and, in the second case, filamentous algae belonging to the family Cladophorales (Cladophora, Cladophoropsis, etc.). This is easily verifiable with a cheap microscope, of those that increase up to 100 times, with no difficulty of use and is of great importance for the options of approach.
For reference, see the images below:
Derbesia
Cladophora
Regards
For reference, see the images below:
Derbesia
Cladophora
Regards
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kswan
Active Member
This is very good information. I'll see what I can do to get a positive ID. I'll also siphon out the sand in the corner with algae and rinse. Seems like a good first step.
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kswan
Active Member
Probably time for an update. I've taken the following steps.
1) Did my best to siphon out the sand and rinse in hot water.
2) Use a brush to clean off the rocks every week. I have not removed them from the tank at this point.
3) Reduce feeding and continue GFO.
4) Increase skimmer cleaning to improve efficiency.
5) Took an hour out of my lighting period
This has reduced my nutrients down to 0 nitrate and .04 phosphate over the last month. After each cleaning the tank looks really nice and the regrowth is significantly slower. I also just started a 72 hour lights out after a good cleaning to see if that helps. I can tell my LPS are not as happy with the reduced nutrients. This is where I struggle to understand how to find the balance. Many people have nutrients much higher without algae issues. Why is this? Is it due to having a more established system?
1) Did my best to siphon out the sand and rinse in hot water.
2) Use a brush to clean off the rocks every week. I have not removed them from the tank at this point.
3) Reduce feeding and continue GFO.
4) Increase skimmer cleaning to improve efficiency.
5) Took an hour out of my lighting period
This has reduced my nutrients down to 0 nitrate and .04 phosphate over the last month. After each cleaning the tank looks really nice and the regrowth is significantly slower. I also just started a 72 hour lights out after a good cleaning to see if that helps. I can tell my LPS are not as happy with the reduced nutrients. This is where I struggle to understand how to find the balance. Many people have nutrients much higher without algae issues. Why is this? Is it due to having a more established system?
It is a complete 100% misnomer that nutrient control, adding or subtracting, is the key to controlling algae. Its one of ten possible ways to work algae as we need it worked, its my opinion that not starting off with parameter detailing is the right mode and instead do the total opposite move that led up to the invasion: detail rasping and cleaning of the invasion, with cheats as permitted, to forcefully take back ground with no wait. a literal opposite move is quite powerful, so I feel its the initial go to best recommended because it will never bleach anyones coral to scrape algae off surfaces.
it will never harm an invaded reef tank to take the sandbed that clouds if you reach in and grab sand w pumps on, and turn that into bare clean grains of sand via powerful rinsing within an hour or four depending on size, and storage. cloudless/no algae fuel, and no reason to have to offset stored pockets of phosphate and nitrate now.
consider opposites to the traditional algae controls... study opposites is my advice to new readers if you want to avoid waiting and if you want your first reef to work, the first time you try. You have to make that occur, not hope.
algae control is one zone of reefing you don't have to take slow.
no doubt, many options including nutrient controls might and can correct that in time...but what applying those to the clean restored condition tank, to prevent recurrence? vs waiting for them to hopefully stop growth, then cause mass dieoff, then wait for the mass to degrade...consider an opposite ordering of the common steps. a fell swoop take back ground move. the complete opposite to how the tank got invaded is how to uninvade it
having lucky grazers never hurts/ but that's depending on animals to hopefully work, always take action which you've certainly started for sure, well done.
update pics
all of reefing is built on taking whatever the rocks throw at you, slowly, and hoping for a win.
In your case, two squirts of peroxide on the cleaned surfaces after you scrubbed them w stop this growback, its a cheat, and a quick one too.
when coralline and coral take over, you can have higher nutrients, and still be algae free, within reason.
I run hundreds of nano and pico reefs online this way.
*that's not to say that changing nutrient stasis doesn't kill algae, it does, hence gfo popularity. but it also stresses corals who do fine in ranging conditions, and hate to be stripped of particulars, we also see with GFO and similar actions when overdone.
grazing is how nature does it, not nutrient control.
someone take hobby test kits to Fiji, not wrecked by algae, and you'll test clean waters. Yet millions of grazers have something to feed on
*aquarists are trained to think algae is bad, it finds its niche just like corals do.
the reason there are fifty opinions on what controls algae best, is because all 50 have worked for the people offering them, they're legit offers.
sandbed cleaning / awesome, that's the best nutrient controller we can use and still be totally safe within the tank.
This attack method above doesn't have to be the go-to for every single invasion, but 98% of reefers have never ran it once. learn it powerfully, have it as a tool already practiced and then try hands off/less work methods like stuff you add to the water. the number one reason people wont even consider opting out of an invasion at the start, on day two, vs catchup, is because they are concerned about instability in the cleaning process.
threads exist to eliminate the concern, with lots of people documenting their resets.
it will never harm an invaded reef tank to take the sandbed that clouds if you reach in and grab sand w pumps on, and turn that into bare clean grains of sand via powerful rinsing within an hour or four depending on size, and storage. cloudless/no algae fuel, and no reason to have to offset stored pockets of phosphate and nitrate now.
consider opposites to the traditional algae controls... study opposites is my advice to new readers if you want to avoid waiting and if you want your first reef to work, the first time you try. You have to make that occur, not hope.
algae control is one zone of reefing you don't have to take slow.
no doubt, many options including nutrient controls might and can correct that in time...but what applying those to the clean restored condition tank, to prevent recurrence? vs waiting for them to hopefully stop growth, then cause mass dieoff, then wait for the mass to degrade...consider an opposite ordering of the common steps. a fell swoop take back ground move. the complete opposite to how the tank got invaded is how to uninvade it
having lucky grazers never hurts/ but that's depending on animals to hopefully work, always take action which you've certainly started for sure, well done.
update pics
all of reefing is built on taking whatever the rocks throw at you, slowly, and hoping for a win.
In your case, two squirts of peroxide on the cleaned surfaces after you scrubbed them w stop this growback, its a cheat, and a quick one too.
when coralline and coral take over, you can have higher nutrients, and still be algae free, within reason.
I run hundreds of nano and pico reefs online this way.
*that's not to say that changing nutrient stasis doesn't kill algae, it does, hence gfo popularity. but it also stresses corals who do fine in ranging conditions, and hate to be stripped of particulars, we also see with GFO and similar actions when overdone.
grazing is how nature does it, not nutrient control.
someone take hobby test kits to Fiji, not wrecked by algae, and you'll test clean waters. Yet millions of grazers have something to feed on
*aquarists are trained to think algae is bad, it finds its niche just like corals do.
the reason there are fifty opinions on what controls algae best, is because all 50 have worked for the people offering them, they're legit offers.
sandbed cleaning / awesome, that's the best nutrient controller we can use and still be totally safe within the tank.
This attack method above doesn't have to be the go-to for every single invasion, but 98% of reefers have never ran it once. learn it powerfully, have it as a tool already practiced and then try hands off/less work methods like stuff you add to the water. the number one reason people wont even consider opting out of an invasion at the start, on day two, vs catchup, is because they are concerned about instability in the cleaning process.
threads exist to eliminate the concern, with lots of people documenting their resets.
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kswan
Active Member
Thanks you for all this information @brandon429. Sounds like I should keep up what I am doing. The GHA is much worse on the tank side with less coral as I am still working to fill it in. To me that follows what you stated above about allowing what we want to grow. I did not do my aquascape in a way that makes removing the worst rocks easy. A mistake I won't make on any future builds.
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