Calling acanthurus disease expert

Reef AquaCult

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Looking from some help with some people with extensive experience in quarantine.
I have a convict thing that has been ill for several months. I put it through Standard quarantine including copper power 2.5 ppm for one month, two doses of general cure. From day one getting home from the fish store the fish was scratching/flashing. I thought the problem had resolved in quarantine the fish was watched for several weeks without medication‘s and placed in display tank. The fish exhibited recurrent flashing and scratching so I removed him treated for possible Gil flukes with hypo salinity 1.009 for one month. However the fish continue to be symptomatic. I then tried fenbendazole bath x 2. Symptoms continued. I figured possible skin Orgill parasite so I did prolonged immersion in formalin 1 mL per 10 gallons for two weeks. Symptoms persisted so I did another round of copper. The fish improves in copper, eat well and he’s normally except for occasional scratching. I have just placed it in a non-medicated sterile tank and he is getting worse, and is continuously irritated. There are no skin lesions, that dish will sit still and occasionally race around the tank and shake his head is also scratch his body. I’m assuming the fish has u diagnosed untreatable virus or some other organ failure / immune issue that is not treatable. Not sure what to do from here.
 

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MnFish1

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Looking from some help with some people with extensive experience in quarantine.
I have a convict thing that has been ill for several months. I put it through Standard quarantine including copper power 2.5 ppm for one month, two doses of general cure. From day one getting home from the fish store the fish was scratching/flashing. I thought the problem had resolved in quarantine the fish was watched for several weeks without medication‘s and placed in display tank. The fish exhibited recurrent flashing and scratching so I removed him treated for possible Gil flukes with hypo salinity 1.009 for one month. However the fish continue to be symptomatic. I then tried fenbendazole bath x 2. Symptoms continued. I figured possible skin Orgill parasite so I did prolonged immersion in formalin 1 mL per 10 gallons for two weeks. Symptoms persisted so I did another round of copper. The fish improves in copper, eat well and he’s normally except for occasional scratching. I have just placed it in a non-medicated sterile tank and he is getting worse, and is continuously irritated. There are no skin lesions, that dish will sit still and occasionally race around the tank and shake his head is also scratch his body. I’m assuming the fish has u diagnosed untreatable virus or some other organ failure / immune issue that is not treatable. Not sure what to do from here.
Sorry about the fish. Just a couple questions before the experts weigh in.

I'm not sure that the 'dips' you did for formalin would have fixed a fluke problem - BUT - a couple questions - how long were the fembendazole 'baths' (duration). Was the fish in 1 ml/10 gallons formalin for 2 weeks straight? I'm not sure that would help much for internal flukes (which would I think require a different via feeding - or prolonged treatment).

Is the fish eating? etc? The fact that it had symptoms on day 1 after bringing it to your tank - does not suggest an 'untreatable' disease - but rather an infection that should be treatable.

All of the medications you added - as you suggested above may have affected the immune system. How are your other fish doing?

@Jay Hemdal
 
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Thanks for your input. All the other fish are fine without symptoms. I have a full establish reef tank, everything has been quarantine.

The fish was eating well in full dose copper. Symptoms improve but do not fully go away in full therapeutic copper. I don’t think the problem is internal. The fish has never had any abnormal excrement. It was gaining weight well previously. Yes I agree all the meds might have destroyed the immune system or caused some type of organ failure.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Looking from some help with some people with extensive experience in quarantine.
I have a convict thing that has been ill for several months. I put it through Standard quarantine including copper power 2.5 ppm for one month, two doses of general cure. From day one getting home from the fish store the fish was scratching/flashing. I thought the problem had resolved in quarantine the fish was watched for several weeks without medication‘s and placed in display tank. The fish exhibited recurrent flashing and scratching so I removed him treated for possible Gil flukes with hypo salinity 1.009 for one month. However the fish continue to be symptomatic. I then tried fenbendazole bath x 2. Symptoms continued. I figured possible skin Orgill parasite so I did prolonged immersion in formalin 1 mL per 10 gallons for two weeks. Symptoms persisted so I did another round of copper. The fish improves in copper, eat well and he’s normally except for occasional scratching. I have just placed it in a non-medicated sterile tank and he is getting worse, and is continuously irritated. There are no skin lesions, that dish will sit still and occasionally race around the tank and shake his head is also scratch his body. I’m assuming the fish has u diagnosed untreatable virus or some other organ failure / immune issue that is not treatable. Not sure what to do from here.

Without knowing the history on this fish, watching the video, it fairly screams out gill flukes. The twitchy flashing, slightly elevated respiration, combined with lack of skin lesions and good body mass all point to that.

The trouble with gill flukes is that some species are egg layers. These are difficult to control using fenbendazole or General Cure, as the eggs are not harmed and just hatch out later on. Even formalin doesn't work well on them. However, the hyposalinity should have worked. The hypo kills the adults flukes and suppresses the eggs from hatching and then, after a couple of weeks, the eggs are no longer viable. There is a rumor that some dealers have become infested with brackish water flukes that can survive hypo. I've never seen that myself though. A gill biopsy would confirm flukes, but those are REALLY tricky to do and require a microscope and a micro-dissecting kit, as well as MS-222 anesthetic....

As for other issues - viral, bacterial or behavioral - I've never seen these cause such rampant flashing, but maybe?

Sorry - I don't have a treatment for you to try though.....


Jay
 
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Without knowing the history on this fish, watching the video, it fairly screams out gill flukes. The twitchy flashing, slightly elevated respiration, combined with lack of skin lesions and good body mass all point to that.

The trouble with gill flukes is that some species are egg layers. These are difficult to control using fenbendazole or General Cure, as the eggs are not harmed and just hatch out later on. Even formalin doesn't work well on them. However, the hyposalinity should have worked. The hypo kills the adults flukes and suppresses the eggs from hatching and then, after a couple of weeks, the eggs are no longer viable. There is a rumor that some dealers have become infested with brackish water flukes that can survive hypo. I've never seen that myself though. A gill biopsy would confirm flukes, but those are REALLY tricky to do and require a microscope and a micro-dissecting kit, as well as MS-222 anesthetic....

As for other issues - viral, bacterial or behavioral - I've never seen these cause such rampant flashing, but maybe?

Sorry - I don't have a treatment for you to try though.....


Jay
Thank you for the suggestions! I hadn’t thought about hypo resistant flukes but I always thought it was gill flukes based on the behavior. I can research a gill scraping but not too excited about that prospect, but I agree that’s about the only thing to diagnose what’s going on. Thank you
 

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Have you checked for stray voltage?
Usually I ignore stray voltage - but THIS would be a prime candidate (I saw he already checked) - but it was with neurologic symptoms a thing to mention
 

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I’m not sure at all and just throwing ideas out… but is there voltage if you disconnect the ground probe? Does it still do it if all the equipment is off?
which fenbendazole did you use and what dosage?
 
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I’m not sure at all and just throwing ideas out… but is there voltage if you disconnect the ground probe? Does it still do it if all the equipment is off?
which fenbendazole did you use and what dosage?
Weird, I checked again and am seeing 24V measured between ground. I have 2 x 24V pumps, Return pump and wave maker I’m assuming these are causing an inductive voltage. Is this harmful? I don’t have grounding probe on the tank. If I turn the equipment off obviously the voltage goes away. I watched several videos and seems varied opinions as to what levels of voltage are considered harmful. Of note, I did measure DT as well which has a grounding probe and it’s near zero V. The fish was symptomatic in the grounded aquarium.

I used fenbendazole powder from everything aquatic website. I did 25mg/L for 12 hrs.
 

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Not sure if 24v can cause major issues, but then again it could possibly be that the fish is sensitive to it.
maybe just take all electronic equipment out and use a plain air pump with a air stone for a day or two and see if things change? Might be worth a try as a last resort.
There is a lot of debate about grounding probes and how they just transfer current out to a ground so if there is voltage is it still going through the tank and possibly harming the fish? I’m not sure.
Did the fenbendazole dissolve fully when you used it? I think it’s best to use a little vodka or dmso to dissolve it completely.
(with the Thomas labs brand fenbendazole, they come in packets that are labeled 250mg but that’s the concentration Amount in each packet which is about 1.9g total volume. A lot of people don’t take that into account and end up under dosing it).
 
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Yeah I’m going tomorrow to try and figure out the voltage situation thanks. Air pump is a good idea. The powder I used was in a small jar and I mesure with a very accurate scale. I didn’t use etoh or dmso. You would think the amount needed would change if you’re dissolving more of the med into solution.

at this point I’ve put the fish through so many treatments I don’t think it’s possible to have gill flukes or ich or other parasite. Maybe voltage is the problem, I hope it is but just not sure.
 
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I FW dip the fish and off came possibly a monogenean fluke. Fish is doing better now.

88C2AD29-FA91-410F-B3E2-24F0DF9FA122.jpeg
 
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