Calling all divers and snorklers for fact check...

[EmdeReef]

Actually my dive partner found a 45 with a silencer on it off New Jersey.

As for trash or garbage, that in itself won't hurt a reef or cause any bleaching. Of course if a piece of trash is laying on a coral, that piece may die, but the coral will just grow on it. Here in New York I have been diving for lobsters since about 1974 and the main place we find lobsters in in tires. Almost every tire has a lobster. On bare areas with no trash or rocks, there is nothing.
Also under the many bridges we have here the bottom is filled with construction debris. Again, loaded with lobsters.
Some "trash" in some places is advantage to sea life. Not chemicals of course. But here in NY at least which is not reserved as a divers paradise by any stretch of the imagination I have been asking for areas to be put aside to fill with tires as a test. The only thing that limits lobsters here is lack of living places. The Sound is almost all rocks but only one lobster will live in a hole and it will chase any other lobsters away so we need more holes.
Also fish do not spawn on open sand or mud, They lay eggs in tires, bottles and cans.
I am only talking about northern waters like NY, not the Caribbean, Tahiti or Hawaii as those places depend on tourists, but even in those places they could place cinder blocks or pipes in areas that divers do not go just to provide breeding places for fish.

The fish in my tank spawn in the bottles more than in the rocks.



My copperband disagrees.

I salute you for daring to dive around here!

To your point about trash reefs, the MTA used to dump subway cars in hope they'd become artificial reefs, the Pentagon dumped tanks and all sorts of gear, off the coast of Florida there were attempts to make tire reefs. See article below how one turned out - other sites remain. Agreed that nothing grows in mud etc but as it turned out those projects were all abandoned after most inexplicably crashed following a short boom. Some theories as to why indicate very poor biodiversity, insufficient to support a reef, but we don't fully understand.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-florida-tires-20150524-story.html

 

[DLHDesign]

Lake Tahoe you can see for miles and this was heading to the actual wall under water.

One of my first dives there I found (among many other things <sad face>) an Aerobie Disk. I was 14/15 at the time and after throwing it back-and-forth a few times, we threw out out into the deep to see how far it would go... :-( Yeah; I've grown up a bit since then. I'd still throw it back-and-forth, but it would have gone into the catch-bag or the like...

 

[Dana Riddle]

I lived 150 feet from the ocean while on the Big Island of Hawaii for 18 years. Trash/floating debris was pretty darn scarce there (in front of the house). However, diving off docks in front of the King Kam hotel in Kona and up the coast in Mahukona revealed tons of junk. Tires, wheels, unidentifiable iron and anything that can fall off a boat were there. You'll see videos of junk washed up on the NW Islands, but then our government limits access to these islands so it has accumulated over the years - these islands are different beasts and hundreds of miles from where I lived.

 

[tripdad]

I have found minor trash on the reef in Cancun,Mexico. Nothing off Lanaii, Hawaii, some off the Maui coast near tourist areas, one piece on Ohau's north shore near Turtle Bay but that was a while ago. Recently upon sifting sargassum floating in Galveston harbor I found tons of critters and some very minor small plastics. Are you considering just the damage done by large plastic items, say above 1 cm or micro-plastics as well?

 

[User1]

To your point about trash reefs, the MTA used to dump subway cars in hope they'd become artificial reefs, the Pentagon dumped tanks and all sorts of gear, off the coast of Florida there were attempts to make tire reefs.

Ships make great reefs. The Aircraft Carrier USS Oriskany was sunk off the Florida coast. I thought I had a better picture but here is a F4U Corsair that is about 115 feet deep. My daughter and I did this dive on a family vacation in Hawaii. In the cockpit was a huge brain coral and a moray eel. Pictures are not great but you can see coral that is growing. Nothing around this plane at all yet here it is, and here is coral, and here is fish.

Mother nature is pretty impressive.

 

[chefjpaul]

https://www.projectaware.org

 

[EmdeReef]

https://www.projectaware.org

I saw divers around the Caymans and Curacao picking up trash off reefs, paid by the tourism dept and the resorts.

I think pollution from trash we can’t see if far more dangerous though...

 

[chefjpaul]

I saw divers around the Caymans and Curacao picking up trash off reefs, paid by the tourism dept and the resorts.

I think pollution from trash we can’t see if far more dangerous though...

Now we are getting into the nitrogen and the likes aspect. Run off etc.

Check out tgis movie, it does correlate with our oceans. Its long, but great.

www.symphonyofthesoil.com

 

[ProfessorPolyp]

A lot of the time this trash turns into an island floating in the current collecting more trash. Depends on current time of day/night, tide changes etc.

 

[Paul B]

I salute you for daring to dive around here!

To your point about trash reefs, the MTA used to dump subway cars in hope they'd become artificial reefs, the Pentagon dumped tanks and all sorts of gear, off the coast of Florida there were attempts to make tire reefs. See article below how one turned out - other sites remain. Agreed that nothing grows in mud etc but as it turned out those projects were all abandoned after most inexplicably crashed following a short boom. Some theories as to why indicate very poor biodiversity, insufficient to support a reef, but we don't fully understand.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-florida-tires-20150524-story.html

EmdeReef, I knew about that tire dump, but they did it wrong and in the wrong place which is why I said, not in tropical waters.

It doesn't work there. Here in NY there are thousands of tires in the water that fell off tugboats and barges, they are all full of lobsters and fish eggs.
They should have asked some divers who have dove here for 50 years how to do it and not some scientists who never dove.

 

[Ryan T.L.]

Trash is another thing reefs face, think it's hard to study in isolation but combined with other problems the reefs could do without it. Last summer I did over 20 dives in the Mediterranean and it's possibly a good example and a cautionary tale of what happens when there's too much physical trash. Granted it is a cooler sea but there's very little biodiversity. Many reefs are literally covered in junk with clearly a handful species dominating. I've seen everything from washers and stoves, to boats, cars, shipping containers etc. Believe me it doesn't grow reefs but just lots and lots of algae.
Some algae species thrive in particularly trash filled areas which further makes things inhospitable. Now you add overfishing, pollution, and invasive species to the mix and you get what looks like a largely barren seabed.

My local guides in Israel told me that the only "good news" was that some species from the Red Sea that managed to get through the Suez canal seem to find these deserted areas good to live and there's hope maybe they'll repopulate areas where right now you're lucky to see a single fish every 15mins...

 

[PatW]

I was did a dive in Utila. There had been rains on the mainland to end the dry season. People dump their trash in the dry river beds. With the rains, it goes to sea. There was so much trash in the water, I call it the dumpster dive.

 

[EmdeReef]

EmdeReef, I knew about that tire dump, but they did it wrong and in the wrong place which is why I said, not in tropical waters.

It doesn't work there. Here in NY there are thousands of tires in the water that fell off tugboats and barges, they are all full of lobsters and fish eggs.
They should have asked some divers who have dove here for 50 years how to do it and not some scientists who never dove.

You’re having too much fun, that should be illegal [emoji23]

Funny thing, I just realized I own a copy of your book - great stuff!

 

[Paul B]

Funny thing, I just realized I own a copy of your book - great stuff!

Thanks, some day I am going to read it.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Which island is that? I would have done that dive in a heartbeat! Cool!

 

[User1]

Which island is that? I would have done that dive in a heartbeat! Cool!

If that was to me, and I don't know, I had to go back to my dive log...it was on Oahu - South-East. I forget which company I dove with but I have Kai Marina. Sorry - forget the charter. Depth was 115' though so usually advanced for that reason. Looking at my notes I had a sad face - probably due to my trouble clearing my ears and a stern talking to my daughter after that one. Her and the dive master beat fins down and poof - there goes my dive buddy...

Other than that it is pretty easy outside of air management and safety stops. You follow the chain down. It is actually pretty epic open water, nothing, and a lot of those sand/garden eels down there.

 

[FlyinBryan]

I am completely perplexed by this (and similar) studies. I have been diving over many miles of coral reefs in the Caribbean and Hawaii. I've never seen a single piece of plastic on the reefs, on the bottom or in the water. So I am struggling, without success, to reconcile my first hand observations with those of this study.

The study does point out that 4 countries (Australia, Thailand, Indonesia and Myanmar) are "heavily contaminated", but that rings hollow too. The vast majority of the Australian coast is essentially uninhabited. The areas I've dove are pretty populated. How can there be no observable plastic in all of the places I've been and "heavy contamination" in Australia, which is much less inhabited than some of the areas I dove.

I'd love to get first hand accounts from the divers and snorkelers among us. How big a problem is this???

I don’t think there’s much to any of it. I personally think it’s a total hoax. The ‘garbage in the reef’ narrative helps drive the other hoax of ‘global warming’ er never mind “climate change”. Whenever I see its “bleaching” out I just lol. There’s a lot of reef. We can’t harm it if we actually tried.

Good luck,

The Global Warmer

 

[gig 'em]

I remember visiting a beach on the NW side of Hawaii (Kauai? It's been over 12 years, so I don't exactly remember the island) that was covered in plastic trash from Asia. I saw tires, old engines, bottles and cans directly off the beach in Tahiti, and the worst was in Indonesia, where as I was snorkeling trash bags and bottles were brushing against my face.

Indonesia was the worst, it was nasty feeling trash bumping against me as I snorkeled. There were plastic bags and fishing line wrapped around corals where I was, plus plastic bottles and bags in floating in coves. I didn't take many photos of the trash (since that doesn't make for a great photo), but you can see some plastic in the bottom left side of this photo.

There was trash, yes, but only in the shallow areas near the land. I assume most trash either sinks in the open ocean or gets washed up onto the shallow reefs off the beach. I don't remember seeing much trash on barrier reefs or deeper reefs. I imagine plastic wrapped around corals isn't good for corals, but currents are so strong I think most plastic is washed off colonies after a while.

 

[Bebow]

When I was diving the southern coast of Mexico just north of Belize it was so strange to roll off the boat in to a garbage scum line littered with plastic bags, bottles ,chunks of styrofoam and fishing line. Once i got down a few feet it disappeared. Same thing when I dove Belize. The beaches there a littered with garbage! I can understand how a sea turtle would mistake a plastic bag for a jellyfish. I was actually worried about getting snagged in all the fishing line, made sure I carried my dive knife! The problem is very real!

 

[Rick Mathew]

I am completely perplexed by this (and similar) studies. I have been diving over many miles of coral reefs in the Caribbean and Hawaii. I've never seen a single piece of plastic on the reefs, on the bottom or in the water. So I am struggling, without success, to reconcile my first hand observations with those of this study.

The study does point out that 4 countries (Australia, Thailand, Indonesia and Myanmar) are "heavily contaminated", but that rings hollow too. The vast majority of the Australian coast is essentially uninhabited. The areas I've dove are pretty populated. How can there be no observable plastic in all of the places I've been and "heavy contamination" in Australia, which is much less inhabited than some of the areas I dove.

I'd love to get first hand accounts from the divers and snorkelers among us. How big a problem is this???

I understand your perplexity! When you read a headline,” Plastic Pollution Is Killing Coral Reefs, 4-Year Study Finds” and it does match your personal observation it is only natural for someone who is a rational thinking person to ask the question… “Can this be correct”

I see the question slightly different….”Why would we not just “trust” what the article says…after all it was a 4 year study done by people who are well educated and presumably know what they are doing”….The answer is we have “duped” to many times!

When an article says “Studies Show…” I have learned to ask some questions.

1) Who did the study (qualifications)
2) Who were the sponsors of the study…someone paid for it!
3) Does the sponsor have a vested interest in the outcome---Follow the money!!
4) What was the methodology the used to conduct the study? (Statistical considerations)
5) Are the conclusions they draw reasonable given the level of complexity of the problem they are studying?

Unfortunately many “Studies” are accompanied by motives and agendas and as such can be biased toward specific outcomes….This is BAD SCIENCE. Then add on top of that the media’s need to “Grab the Headline”…A dangerous combination. The outcome of this “BAD SCIENCE” and the medias need for "Grabbing Headlines" is to normalized it in our society and we hold on to it for years!.... The tobacco industry is a prime example and there are many others.

To say “Plastic Pollution Is Killing Coral Reefs” is a pretty sensational conclusion. And unfortunately the headlines are all most of us remember and often what establish our beliefs on! There is no doubt (as you have seen in some of the responses you have received), that Ocean Trash is real and a problem! I have been a diver since 1997 and have seen many dive sites all over the world….and there is a lot of trash!! As to its impact I cannot comment only to say it is most likely not good and at the very least it is very ugly!

I have no idea of the validity of this study but the very fact that I must be skeptical is the sad truth…Maybe in addition to Ocean Trash we should focus on the “Trash” of bad science and media reporting… IMO

Sorry if I appear a bit jaded but as Sr. VP of R&D for many years and working in conjunction with University and other organizations, I am speaking from personal experience…My attitude went from “Trust but verify” to… “Verify then Trust”

Rick