Can BIOPELLETS reduce PO4 and NO3 holistically?

[Saltees]

I feel ya. I went through something similar myself after having a full tank wipeout from velvet. I went through a fallow period myself while QTing fish only to have it return in QT weeks later. I personally went through the H2O2 experiment myself multiple times and feel like it is successful. I still do in tank H2O2 dosing proactively when I add batches of fish even if they're QTed. Just a bit of prevention, but it does impact tank balance and bacteria is something to get a handle of. I get it. Good luck with the QT.

Super! Same here, it’s not that H2O2 doesn’t work, it’s place is in parasite management maybe major outbreak prevention, rather than elimination as many would like others to believe. Moving forth, I would too dose a week before and thereafter whenever I add new QT’ed fishes. A added observation, the hydroxyl radicals removed any greens (algae) from my SPS base, exposing those area bone white. To me it’s a good thing, as the algae not overwhelming the sticks.

Now back to BP discussions. =)

I read somewhere that biopellets don’t need to be fluidized as long as there is suffice flow through them, so they don’t clump. I think it’s a welcome variable for the nitifiers.

 

[newreef1]

For the past year and a half, I’ve been keeping my 120GAL’s [email protected] and NO3 35-40ppm with the help of:
- ATS,
- Refugium (Chaetomorpha),
- NITRAGUARD TITANIUM,
- ROWAPHOS (GFO) @ 1kg/month.

A month ago, I took the GFO offline and went with full load of Dr Tim’s NP Active Pearls Biopellets and added 120ml of Waste Away Bacteria every 48hrs since, with the intent to jumpstart the NYOS TORQ 2L reactor ASAP. My UV is OFF and my skimmer only runs a third (8hrs) of the next day after dosing Waste Away.

During the first week without GFO, my PO4 shot up to 0.9ppm+ and NO3 @ 40ppm.

The numbers remained the same till the last week, the PO4 could be a lot higher, given my HANNA CHECKER PHOSPHATE ULR limit @ 0.9ppm only.

On reading Dr Tim’s Aquatics FAQ, I was told to reduce use GFO to reduce the PO4 to under 1ppm, while cycling the Biopellets. So I added 500gm of GFO, and my PO4 dropped to 0.58ppm after 24 hours, while the NO3 still remained rock solid @ 40ppm.

Today after a month, I’m questioning “Can BIOPELLETS reduce PO4 and NO3 holistically?”

Any advice is appreciated.

Sorry I have no knowledge about what you’re asking but am very intrigued by the fish in your tank. Their absolutely gorgeous, can you please tell me what kind they are?

 

[Saltees]

@newreef1 2/3 of the fishes (mostly Anthias including 2 blotchy) in the photo died from a ICH/VELVET event, my current stable as follows…


4 Mccullochi Clownfish (Amphiprion mccullochi)
3 Diamond Watchman Goby (Valenciennea puellaris)
2 Banana Moray (Gymnothorax milaris)
1M1F Bismaculatus Anthia (Pseudanthias bimaculatus)
1M1F Lyretail Anthia (Pseudanthias squamipinnis)
1M1F Dispar Anthia (Pseudanthias dispar)
1M1F Evansi Anthia (Pseudanthias evansi)
1M1F Resplendent Anthia (Pseudanthias pulcherrimus)
1F Sunset Anthia (Pseudanthias parvirostris)
1F Hutomo’s Anthia (Pseudanthias hutomoi)
2 Red Dartfish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
1 Powder Blue Tang (Acanthurus leucosternon)
1 Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum)
1 Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens)
1 Gem Tang (Zebrasoma gemmatum)
1 Desjardin Sailfin Tang (Zebrasoma desjardini)
1 Blonde Naso Tang (Naso elegans)
1 Mystery Wrasse (Pseudocheilinus ocellatus)
1 China Tamarin Wrasse (Anampses neoguinaicus)
1 Aqua Marine Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus aquamarinus)
1 Naoko’s Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus naokoae)
1 Radiant Wrasse (Halichoeres iridis)
1 Yellow Coris Wrasse (Halichoeres chrysus)
1 Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasse (Labroides dimidiatus)
1 Purple Tilefish (Hoplolatilus purpureus)
1 Springer Damsel (Chrysiptera springeri)
1 Longnose Hawkfish (Oxycirrhites typus)
1 Bristletail Filefish (Acreichthys tomentosus)
1 Copperband Butterflyfish (Chelmon rostratus)

 

[newreef1]

@newreef1 2/3 of the fishes (mostly Anthias including 2 blotchy) in the photo died from a ICH/VELVET event, my current stable as follows…


4 Mccullochi Clownfish (Amphiprion mccullochi)
3 Diamond Watchman Goby (Valenciennea puellaris)
2 Banana Moray (Gymnothorax milaris)
1M1F Bismaculatus Anthia (Pseudanthias bimaculatus)
1M1F Lyretail Anthia (Pseudanthias squamipinnis)
1M1F Dispar Anthia (Pseudanthias dispar)
1M1F Evansi Anthia (Pseudanthias evansi)
1M1F Resplendent Anthia (Pseudanthias pulcherrimus)
1F Sunset Anthia (Pseudanthias parvirostris)
1F Hutomo’s Anthia (Pseudanthias hutomoi)
2 Red Dartfish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
1 Powder Blue Tang (Acanthurus leucosternon)
1 Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum)
1 Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens)
1 Gem Tang (Zebrasoma gemmatum)
1 Desjardin Sailfin Tang (Zebrasoma desjardini)
1 Blonde Naso Tang (Naso elegans)
1 Mystery Wrasse (Pseudocheilinus ocellatus)
1 China Tamarin Wrasse (Anampses neoguinaicus)
1 Aqua Marine Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus aquamarinus)
1 Naoko’s Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus naokoae)
1 Radiant Wrasse (Halichoeres iridis)
1 Yellow Coris Wrasse (Halichoeres chrysus)
1 Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasse (Labroides dimidiatus)
1 Purple Tilefish (Hoplolatilus purpureus)
1 Springer Damsel (Chrysiptera springeri)
1 Longnose Hawkfish (Oxycirrhites typus)
1 Bristletail Filefish (Acreichthys tomentosus)
1 Copperband Butterflyfish (Chelmon rostratus)

Oh wow! How big is your tank? Also where do you purchase your fish from, not many LFS near where I live and the one I go to is an hour away and the fish aren’t always the healthiest.

 

[Saltees]

Oh wow! How big is your tank? Also where do you purchase your fish from, not many LFS near where I live and the one I go to is an hour away and the fish aren’t always the healthiest.

I am running the REASEA PENINSULAR 500 (132G total volume).

My place is right across the globe from where you’re…sunny island of Singapore. We have a wide selections from Western Pacific, Indian Ocean and Australia, being smacked right in their middle. But similarly many fishes at LFS aren’t exactly the healthiest by hobbyist standard, cos many of us do overfed them. QT is never a thing with LFS here as their fishes move fast, so as the corals.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Quick update from me on the BP front. After resuming the 9ml Nopox dose, and topping off my BP so that it is now maxed out, my nutrients did go down a little. But just for about a week (Nov 28 - Dec 5). Then they slowly went back up.

Perplexing right? But then a light bulb went off... BACTERIA depletion!

So I started up a 20ml per day MB7 dose on Dec 12, and BOOM!! That was it! See the below charts for my readings. I am beginning to think a lack of bacteria was the issue all along, and maybe did not even need to start up the Nopox again.

I will be checking daily going forward. If the nutrients keep dropping so quickly, I will phase out the Nopox dosing. If I get to zero Nopox, and nutrients continue to drop, I know it is due to the bacteria alone with the BP, and will reduce the MB7 dosage as needed.

I'm hoping for this scenario, since then I know I can control the nutrient level by controlling the amount of bacteria I feed to the BP, and I know how much BP I have in the reactor (maxed out). So I will have a controllable nutrient solution.

 

[Saltees]

Quick update from me on the BP front. After resuming the 9ml Nopox dose, and topping off my BP so that it is now maxed out, my nutrients did go down a little. But just for about a week (Nov 28 - Dec 5). Then they slowly went back up.

Perplexing right? But then a light bulb went off... BACTERIA depletion!

So I started up a 20ml per day MB7 dose on Dec 12, and BOOM!! That was it! See the below charts for my readings. I am beginning to think a lack of bacteria was the issue all along, and maybe did not even need to start up the Nopox again.

I will be checking daily going forward. If the nutrients keep dropping so quickly, I will phase out the Nopox dosing. If I get to zero Nopox, and nutrients continue to drop, I know it is due to the bacteria alone with the BP, and will reduce the MB7 dosage as needed.

I'm hoping for this scenario, since then I know I can control the nutrient level by controlling the amount of bacteria I feed to the BP, and I know how much BP I have in the reactor (maxed out). So I will have a controllable nutrient solution.

Great! I was heavy dosing to seed my BP initially with Dr Tim’s Waste Away (similar to MB7) and had to turn off my UV, that resulted in ICH outbreak that took away 3/4 of my fishes. Are you running any UV?

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Not running a UV. I've quarantined all of my fish for a month and a half in copper/prazi though, which I believe is helping to fend off ich and other diseases. I've seen a bit of ich on my blue tang every now and then, but he fights it off luckily.

I'm thinking that my bacteria needs to be replenished more frequently because it is a bare bottom tank, without substrate to house bacteria. I have plenty of live rock, but sand helps a lot to maintain nutrients and bio cultures, so I'm missing all of that.

I'm okay with dosing bacteria, if that turns out to be my silver bullet. MB7 says the bottle needs to be shaken though before dosing, so it would need to be a manual process, i.e. I can't just hook it up to a doser. I'm looking into other products too, like Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance, which doesn't need shaking, and will maintain proper NO3/PO4 ratios.

 

[Saltees]

Not running a UV. I've quarantined all of my fish for a month and a half in copper/prazi though, which I believe is helping to fend off ich and other diseases. I've seen a bit of ich on my blue tang every now and then, but he fights it off luckily.

I'm thinking that my bacteria needs to be replenished more frequently because it is a bare bottom tank, without substrate to house bacteria. I have plenty of live rock, but sand helps a lot to maintain nutrients and bio cultures, so I'm missing all of that.

I'm okay with dosing bacteria, if that turns out to be my silver bullet. MB7 says the bottle needs to be shaken though before dosing, so it would need to be a manual process, i.e. I can't just hook it up to a doser. I'm looking into other products too, like Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance, which doesn't need shaking, and will maintain proper NO3/PO4 ratios.

Yes, heterotrophic bacteria work for sure, as they are commonly used to seed BP.

I do TM Bacto Balance before BP, they are liquid carbon dosing (aka bacteria food) like NOPOX.

Some heterotrophic bacteria products are the likes of MB7, MBClean, Waste Away, etc.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Yes, heterotrophic bacteria work for sure, as they are commonly used to seed BP.

I do TM Bacto Balance before BP, they are liquid carbon dosing (aka bacteria food) like NOPOX.

Some heterotrophic bacteria products are the likes of MB7, MBClean, Waste Away, etc.

Okay thanks. I’ll be looking for another bacteria that I can dose instead of MB7 which does not need to be shaken, so that I can automate the dosing. Not another liquid carbon like NP BB. Not sure why I thought that was bacteria. Obviously didn’t get far in researching it, haha!

 

[Salty2021]

I tried the biopellets on my 20 gal Fiji cube. I found I wasn't doing much. I even had the biopellets water swirled. Seem just clogg up and not want to spin the pellets. Didn't want to have to break it down and clean every two weeks..lol

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I tried the biopellets on my 20 gal Fiji cube. I found I wasn't doing much. I even had the biopellets water swirled. Seem just clogg up and not want to spin the pellets. Didn't want to have to break it down and clean every two weeks..lol

I didn’t have much success at first either, as described in this thread. What really made it work for me was getting the BioMaxx reactor and pointing the output in the direction of the skimmer input.

Other than that, it has been a learning process to keep the BP topped off, keep the skimmer and reactor tuned, and to maintain bacteria population.

I just turned off my Nopox completely, which I used to supplement the BP over the past few weeks. I was thinking that the BP isn’t as effective as I hoped, but the real issue seems to be bacteria depletion.

That’s where I’m at, but my BP journey has definitely been trying, but educational at the same time.

 

[Saltees]

I didn’t have much success at first either, as described in this thread. What really made it work for me was getting the BioMaxx reactor and pointing the output in the direction of the skimmer input.

Other than that, it has been a learning process to keep the BP topped off, keep the skimmer and reactor tuned, and to maintain bacteria population.

I just turned off my Nopox completely, which I used to supplement the BP over the past few weeks. I was thinking that the BP isn’t as effective as I hoped, but the real issue seems to be bacteria depletion.

That’s where I’m at, but my BP journey has definitely been trying, but educational at the same time.

Very educational journey indeed. I was bacteria dosing with Waste Away to seed and complement the BP reactor but had to stop prematurely after a month, cos iCH hit hard when I turned off the UV for the above exercise. I am glad to see the result of your bacteria dosing to drop both NO3 and PO4 to reach an equilibrium ratio. Great work!

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Last 2 readings below are after turning off the 9ml daily Nopox dose.
So this is just based on my BP reactor, and 20ml MB7 daily dose.

NO3 continued to drop from 18.1 to 15.2, and PO4 dropped from 0.14 to 0.09 since stopping Nopox.
I'm hoping to land at NO3 of 5 and PO4 around 0.05, then will cut the MB7 dose in half, and determine what is needed for a maintenance dose.

Skimmer has been producing quite a bit of foam, and I've had to wipe it down a couple times per day. Also been testing and maintaining Alk and Ca daily, which has been dropping.

Ph has been a bit troublesome to maintain. The bacteria need a lot of O2, so in addition to my CO2 scrubber, I have been cracking the windows in the reef room, even though it's cold outside, so the heaters are running most of the time.

Coral are brightening up. Noteworthy is my Miami Hurricane chalice is showing off lots of bright pink polyps which used to be dull. Apparently it looks like candy to my 6 bar angel, who has eaten a few of the polyps. But they'll grow back. I just need to feed him more, which I now think I have the luxury to do without worrying as much about nutrients.

 

[Saltees]

Last 2 readings below are after turning off the 9ml daily Nopox dose.
So this is just based on my BP reactor, and 20ml MB7 daily dose.

NO3 continued to drop from 18.1 to 15.2, and PO4 dropped from 0.14 to 0.09 since stopping Nopox.
I'm hoping to land at NO3 of 5 and PO4 around 0.05, then will cut the MB7 dose in half, and determine what is needed for a maintenance dose.

Skimmer has been producing quite a bit of foam, and I've had to wipe it down a couple times per day. Also been testing and maintaining Alk and Ca daily, which has been dropping.

Ph has been a bit troublesome to maintain. The bacteria need a lot of O2, so in addition to my CO2 scrubber, I have been cracking the windows in the reef room, even though it's cold outside, so the heaters are running most of the time.

Coral are brightening up. Noteworthy is my Miami Hurricane chalice is showing off lots of bright pink polyps which used to be dull. Apparently it looks like candy to my 6 bar angel, who has eaten a few of the polyps. But they'll grow back. I just need to feed him more, which I now think I have the luxury to do without worrying as much about nutrients.

Looks promising.

Since I’m running Copper Power on the FOWPVC display for the next 30days without UV. I have also started over the weekend dosing 10ml of Waste Away with my NO3 is 27ppm and my PO4 is 0.90ppm to start with.

Similarly, my skimmer is foaming a lot too. I may consider dosing bacteria at 9am and skimmer only on from 6pm to 9am (lights out).

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Looks promising.

Since I’m running Copper Power on the FOWPVC display for the next 30days without UV. I have also started over the weekend dosing 10ml of Waste Away with my NO3 is 27ppm and my PO4 is 0.90ppm to start with.

Similarly, my skimmer is foaming a lot too. I may consider dosing bacteria at 9am and skimmer only on from 6pm to 9am (lights out).

Thanks, I'm hoping things continue well for the next week.

I need to keep the skimmer on constantly to aerate, since the bacteria is using a lot of O2, and is driving down my pH. I don't even turn it off anymore to clean the cup. I just squeegee the neck, and wipe down the inner sides with paper towels to wipe off the slime, and to push down the foam so it doesn't clog up the holes in the cover.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

One other thing, maybe you're seeing it too. My flow has changed, and more water seems to stay in the overflow than before, and the water level is lower in the sump as a result.

I believe it is because there is more bacteria slime covering the rollermat fleece, so water does not flow through it as easily as before. So the drain connected to the rollermat can't push through as much, making the overflow level higher.

The rollermat fleece also advances more frequently due to this.
Let me know if you're seeing that as well.

 

[Saltees]

One other thing, maybe you're seeing it too. My flow has changed, and more water seems to stay in the overflow than before, and the water level is lower in the sump as a result.

I believe it is because there is more bacteria slime covering the rollermat fleece, so water does not flow through it as easily as before. So the drain connected to the rollermat can't push through as much, making the overflow level higher.

The rollermat fleece also advances more frequently due to this.
Let me know if you're seeing that as well.

For sure my REEFMAT 1200 is consumed at 2X the recommended amount about a month on mine. Skimmate is oilier.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

After one week without Nopox. I.e. BP and daily MB7 only. Hopefully nutrients are coming into balance. The coming week will be telling regarding how PO4 behaves once in line with NO3. Hopefully they stay in sync and slowly decline together.

 

[Saltyanimals]

Your graphs are promising as it appears to be keeping your NO3 and PO4 in-check. (I typically don't react to any graph movement unless I see the change over 2 data points to rule out fluctuations and test errors). Your update motivated me to go and do some analysis on my own graphs:

- NO3 continues to decrease steadily over time in-line with the downward graph trajectory. Has not leveled off so continues to test the baseline. My goal is 10-15 ppm. I'm 12.1 now so happy I'm in the range with no other tank changes.
- Surprisingly my PO4 continues to decrease. Worth noting that I changed my passive GFO bag 7 weeks ago. Unfortunately I only started using GFO again over the past several months so I can't establish a normal baseline on how long a passive GFO bag works for my tank. With no other PO4 treatment aside from chaeto, I'm glad to see this trend.


At a minimum this experiment was for me to see if I can use BP to maintain NO3 and PO4 which it appears to continue to work. I can live with a passive GFO bag change if it last 8 weeks as long as I don't have to mess with another reactor.