Can I treat prophylactically for brook/uronema without food-soaking, formalin, or CP?

[Muffin87]

Humblefish's quarantine protocol and BRS video on quarantining for Brook & Uronema have rather conflicting advice about prophylactic treatments for brook/uronema. In summary:

	BRS video	Humblefish
Food-soaking with metro	Second best option in quarantine	No (symptomatic infections only)
Dosing metro in QT	No	Yes
Formalin dips	Best option in quarantine	No (symptomatic infections only)
Chloroquine Phosphate	Is an option	Yes

Unfeasible options:

• @Jay Hemdal told me food-soaking can't be done easily. Since I'd be medicating prophylactically, I wouldn't really be able to tell if it's working.
• Formalin dips are difficult to do safely, especially in a two-room apartment (I'm talking about MY safety).
• I got a prescription for chloroquine phosphate - pharmacy says CP by Bayer has been discontinued in 2019, and they can't get the raw CP for an officinal preparation. Apparently, we can thank COVID for that too.

Questions:
#fishmedics, I realise I'm ruling out 3 options, but I'd like to check with you that I've considered all possible options.

1. Is it possible to treat prophylactically for Brook/Uronema without food-soaking, formalin dips, or chloroquine phosphate?
2. Or am I asking for the moon?
3. Will dosing Metro in the QT do much against potential Brook/uronema infection?
4. I'm planning to get a bunch of chromis for my 90G. What would you do if you were me?

As always, thanks for the all information you share with us.

 

[threebuoys]

I think the likelihood for successfully treating for uronema prophylactically is remote, and chromis are highly susceptible.

I believe I would QT with copper and prazi per the current protocol and observe for Brook during that time rather than treating with formalin or metro before an infection is observed.

@Jay Hemdal may have more insight into this question.

 

[Martingale]

Dr Reef sells Chloroquine Phosphate:

Chloroquine Phosphate | Quarantined Fish

Excellent treatment for ICH

drreefsquarantinedfish.com

I assume it’s the same source and grade as what he uses for his business.

 

[Muffin87]

Dr Reef sells Chloroquine Phosphate:

Chloroquine Phosphate | Quarantined Fish

Excellent treatment for ICH

drreefsquarantinedfish.com

I assume it’s the same source and grade as what he uses for his business.

thanks for this, but prescription-only meds wouldn't go through customs in the EU.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Humblefish's quarantine protocol and BRS video on quarantining for Brook & Uronema have rather conflicting advice about prophylactic treatments for brook/uronema. In summary:

	BRS video	Humblefish
Food-soaking with metro	Second best option in quarantine	No (symptomatic infections only)
Dosing metro in QT	No	Yes
Formalin dips	Best option in quarantine	No (symptomatic infections only)
Chloroquine Phosphate	Is an option	Yes

Unfeasible options:

• @Jay Hemdal told me food-soaking can't be done easily. Since I'd be medicating prophylactically, I wouldn't really be able to tell if it's working.
• Formalin dips are difficult to do safely, especially in a two-room apartment (I'm talking about MY safety).
• I got a prescription for chloroquine phosphate - pharmacy says CP by Bayer has been discontinued in 2019, and they can't get the raw CP for an officinal preparation. Apparently, we can thank COVID for that too.

Questions:
#fishmedics, I realise I'm ruling out 3 options, but I'd like to check with you that I've considered all possible options.

1. Is it possible to treat prophylactically for Brook/Uronema without food-soaking, formalin dips, or chloroquine phosphate?
2. Or am I asking for the moon?
3. Will dosing Metro in the QT do much against potential Brook/uronema infection?
4. I'm planning to get a bunch of chromis for my 90G. What would you do if you were me?

As always, thanks for the all information you share with us.

Hi, I’m on my phone at my boat this weekend, so is tough for me to write a full answer:
I think it is an error to lump Brook and Uronema into the same category.
Overall, I like the BRS options. Metro in food can help with Brook at 5000 ppm in food, but most fish find that bitter.
Chloroquine in the water won’t cure Uronema but will help control the spread from fish to fish.
Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

I don’t agree with your inference of Humblefish’s advice. Here are sources that prove my point from Humblefish himself:

Any fish you suspect is carrying Uronema should get a 45-60 minute formalin bath before entering your DT or QT.

Prophylaxis for chromis (and other Uronema prone fish)

Enough is enough! After encountering recent failures to eradicate uronema via metronidazole, acriflavine and FW dips; I highly recommend using formalin to pretreat any chromis and other Uronema prone fish. Anthias are also very susceptible, but I sometimes see Uronema on damsels, clownfish...

humble.fish

Here’s another article of his made specifically to uronema:

Treatment of choice is a 45 minute formalin bath (e.g. Quick Cure), followed by transfer into a new/sterile QT.

Once in QT, it is very important to do followup treatment to ensure all of the parasites have been eliminated. This can be accomplished by dosing and food soaking metronidazole (e.g. Seachem Metroplex) for 10-14 days.

Uronema

Uronema marinum (updated 6-10-2023) What You Need To Know: * These are the red sores most often seen on chromis damsels & anthias. However, Uronema can technically infect any fish - sometimes only in the gills. * The most up-to-date treatment methods are being discussed here: Intermediate -...

humble.fish

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don’t agree with your inference of Humblefish’s advice. Here are sources that prove my point from Humblefish himself:

Prophylaxis for chromis (and other Uronema prone fish)

Enough is enough! After encountering recent failures to eradicate uronema via metronidazole, acriflavine and FW dips; I highly recommend using formalin to pretreat any chromis and other Uronema prone fish. Anthias are also very susceptible, but I sometimes see Uronema on damsels, clownfish...

humble.fish

Here’s another article of his made specifically to uronema:

Uronema

Uronema marinum (updated 6-10-2023) What You Need To Know: * These are the red sores most often seen on chromis damsels & anthias. However, Uronema can technically infect any fish - sometimes only in the gills. * The most up-to-date treatment methods are being discussed here: Intermediate -...

humble.fish

Using formalin prophylacticly is good course of action to limit Uronema spreading to other fish. However, I have only had it actually save fish when used on the external form seen in sea dragons (probably a different species). I have never cured a case of intercellular Uronema in a fish.
Jay

 

[kenchilada]

I don’t agree with your inference of Humblefish’s advice. Here are sources that prove my point from Humblefish himself:

Prophylaxis for chromis (and other Uronema prone fish)

Enough is enough! After encountering recent failures to eradicate uronema via metronidazole, acriflavine and FW dips; I highly recommend using formalin to pretreat any chromis and other Uronema prone fish. Anthias are also very susceptible, but I sometimes see Uronema on damsels, clownfish...

humble.fish

Here’s another article of his made specifically to uronema:

Uronema

Uronema marinum (updated 6-10-2023) What You Need To Know: * These are the red sores most often seen on chromis damsels & anthias. However, Uronema can technically infect any fish - sometimes only in the gills. * The most up-to-date treatment methods are being discussed here: Intermediate -...

humble.fish

Agree, he literally just recommended a formalin bath for my anthias two days ago. HF has never steered me wrong and always gives clear consistent advice. He’s the best, I wouldn’t even bother to compare to a BRS marketing video.

 

[Miami Reef]

Using formalin prophylacticly is good course of action to limit Uronema spreading to other fish. However, I have only had it actually save fish when used on the external form seen in sea dragons (probably a different species). I have never cured a case of intercellular Uronema in a fish.
Jay

I do agree with you on this. Formalin baths do not work for fish that are already infected with uronema. It mainly can help prevent transmission.

I personally have seen the best results with food soaking metro.

 

[Muffin87]

I don’t agree with your inference of Humblefish’s advice. Here are sources that prove my point from Humblefish himself:

Prophylaxis for chromis (and other Uronema prone fish)

Enough is enough! After encountering recent failures to eradicate uronema via metronidazole, acriflavine and FW dips; I highly recommend using formalin to pretreat any chromis and other Uronema prone fish. Anthias are also very susceptible, but I sometimes see Uronema on damsels, clownfish...

humble.fish

Here’s another article of his made specifically to uronema:

Uronema

Uronema marinum (updated 6-10-2023) What You Need To Know: * These are the red sores most often seen on chromis damsels & anthias. However, Uronema can technically infect any fish - sometimes only in the gills. * The most up-to-date treatment methods are being discussed here: Intermediate -...

humble.fish

Thanks for this, I wasn't looking at the forum, and I wasn't able to find anything this clear.

How do you people protect yourself from formalin fumes?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for this, I wasn't looking at the forum, and I wasn't able to find anything this clear.

How do you people protect yourself from formalin fumes?

That is a big issue in homes. Formalin de-gasses over time, and it enters the room air. There is not a good way to limit exposure. That is why most aquarium medications no longer contain it. We use NIOSH approved respirators when using large amounts of it, but we rely on room air exchange to limit workplace exposure.

In the end, I use MUCH less formalin than I did 30 or 40 years ago. Indeed, I don't think I've used it at all in the past four years except as a dip which was then poured down the drain.

Jay