Can mixed saltwater be stored long term and do salt mixes expire? | 52FAQ

[Daniel@R2R]

I would definitely like to see to BRSinvestigates episode on storing saltwater. Please definitely prioritize that one as much as possible.

 

[DipSpit]

The anxiety is killing me, though.

 

[HolisticBear]

I think it would be interesting if you were to test the levels on your water with and without circulation! I would test within the first few days and towards the end of the reservoir for both, and test phosphates, nitrates, alkalinity, calcium, and maybe magnesium. ;-)

-Randy

I'm guessing there is a world of difference between storing your SW in a cold dark Minnesota basement vs a garage in Florida.

Also, what is the worst case? If it's only lower Ca/Alk, then you just use a bit more of your Ca/Alk supplement. If you lose 20% of trace elements, probably not a big deal. I can envision leaving probiotics salt sitting for 6 weeks might kill off all the probiotics.

Outside of the hot garage in Florida, I'm hoping we're making a "big" deal out of nothing. BRS will have to investigate and give us a warm fuzzy

 

[DipSpit]

I'm guessing there is a world of difference between storing your SW in a cold dark Minnesota basement vs a garage in Florida.

Also, what is the worst case? If it's only lower Ca/Alk, then you just use a bit more of your Ca/Alk supplement. If you lose 20% of trace elements, probably not a big deal. I can envision leaving probiotics salt sitting for 6 weeks might kill off all the probiotics.

Outside of the hot garage in Florida, I'm hoping we're making a "big" deal out of nothing. BRS will have to investigate and give us a warm fuzzy

I am legitimately leaving work early to check on this.

My water has been sitting sealed in a basement around 55-60 degrees.

After measurement I will turn on the mixing pump and measure again after a few hours.

 

[DipSpit]

So upon first measurement pre mix my Alk had drooped from 6.7 dkh from the original 9 dkh. No wonder I have been having to dose so much Alk.

Needless to say AWC system has been suspended for the time being...now I have to recalculate my dosing!! :mad:

If water cannot be stored - is the viability of the AWC system completely void?

EDIT: @randyBRS Can the AWC system (and how to do it efficiently with a stored new salt mix resevoir) be discussed in this topic?

 

[Jongalt26]

How many days ago did you mix the water? From my understanding the alk will remain stable for about 3 days or so before dropping. After that then dosing will be necessary.
I dont have first hand experience with this yet, my friend told me this when we were talking about setting up my AWC system.

 

[DipSpit]

How many days ago did you mix the water? From my understanding the alk will remain stable for about 3 days or so before dropping. After that then dosing will be necessary.
I dont have first hand experience with this yet, my friend told me this when we were talking about setting up my AWC system.

About 2 weeks

 

[Jongalt26]

I wonder if the alk loss is fairly linear for easy dosing.

 

[vertigo01]

Just a newbie question.
Would the circulation of salt be no different in a semi airtight container than it would be if it were circulation through a freshly set up or current running aquarium?

Also would the component ( Alk, Kh, Etc. Etc. ) loss not be any diff as opposed to the same system above? Aside from offering a higher component concentration due to the non uptake of aquarium inhabitants?

 

[DipSpit]

Sorry to continually bump this thread - but this has my anxiety level through the roof!

 

[DipSpit]

I would definitely like to see to BRSinvestigates episode on storing saltwater. Please definitely prioritize that one as much as possible.

I cannot emphasize this enough!

 

[MaiReef]

Great topic. +1 to investigation.

 

[Bradley Crocker]

I use Coral Pro as well. It's great that I can mix and use it in an hour or two. But be aware, Red Sea themselves say it needs to be used within 4-5 hours of mixing.

I used to make my water a day or two before, heat and aerate it so it was ready when I was. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why my alk, ca, and mg were so low. My alk was < 5.32dkh, below the minimum level of my test kit. My new saltwater is 12.1dkh (tank is now 9.38dkh since I started mixing it same day). Huge difference.

I wouldn't say Coral Pro's inability to be stored is a deal breaker for me, but it should be for those who run automatic WC, or those with very large or multiple systems who need large amounts on hand.

 

[DipSpit]

I use Coral Pro as well. It's great that I can mix and use it in an hour or two. But be aware, Red Sea themselves say it needs to be used within 4-5 hours of mixing.

I used to make my water a day or two before, heat and aerate it so it was ready when I was. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why my alk, ca, and mg were so low. My alk was < 5.32dkh, below the minimum level of my test kit. My new saltwater is 12.1dkh (tank is now 9.38dkh since I started mixing it same day). Huge difference.

I wouldn't say Coral Pro's inability to be stored is a deal breaker for me, but it should be for those who run automatic WC, or those with very large or multiple systems who need large amounts on hand.

I would love it if there was a shelf stable salt mix!!! Hopefully in BRS Investigates they will find one that is suitable OR propose a way to make AWC systems valid again. Because now, in my mind, they are not outside of say, a week I guess.

 

[randyBRS]

So upon first measurement pre mix my Alk had dropped from 6.7 dkh from the original 9 dkh. No wonder I have been having to dose so much Alk.
Needless to say AWC system has been suspended for the time being...now I have to recalculate my dosing!! :mad:
If water cannot be stored - is the viability of the AWC system completely void?
EDIT: @randyBRS Can the AWC system (and how to do it efficiently with a stored new salt mix resevoir) be discussed in this topic?

I've experienced the same drops in levels in the 260gal mix reservoir here. Typically, on Wednesdays or Thursdays, if we notice a large drop throughout the week we will add dry Soda Ash and/or Calcium Chloride. That typically buys us the rest of the week with levels being where we want them. Essentially you could do the same with your AWC setup, where 1x-2x each week you measure the fresh mix and adjust accordingly. I'm not sure what the script will look like on this one, but I know Ryan will explore common setups where this can pose a problem, i.e. people with AWC systems.

I'll be sure to add a note about that in the to-do list, and Ryan assured me last week that we would be moving this up the priority board. We should be able to start testing in a few weeks, as ongoing tests come to an end and open up new testing slots.

Just a newbie question.
Would the circulation of salt be no different in a semi airtight container than it would be if it were circulation through a freshly set up or current running aquarium?

Also would the component ( Alk, Kh, Etc. Etc. ) loss not be any diff as opposed to the same system above? Aside from offering a higher component concentration due to the non uptake of aquarium inhabitants?

The difference between the tank and the container, in this scenario, is about increasing oxygenation and preventing stagnation. In the tank itself, it is important to have much circulation for the health of the livestock as well as to increase calcification of the corals. In the mixing tank, the coral calcification doesn't exist, which leaves the Alk and Ca prone to precipitation (even more so if the water becomes stagnant due to lack of circulation) as it has nothing to bind to.


-Randy

 

[DipSpit]

I've experienced the same drops in levels in the 260gal mix reservoir here. Typically, on Wednesdays or Thursdays, if we notice a large drop throughout the week we will add dry Soda Ash and/or Calcium Chloride. That typically buys us the rest of the week with levels being where we want them. Essentially you could do the same with your AWC setup, where 1x-2x each week you measure the fresh mix and adjust accordingly. I'm not sure what the script will look like on this one, but I know Ryan will explore common setups where this can pose a problem, i.e. people with AWC systems.

I'll be sure to add a note about that in the to-do list, and Ryan assured me last week that we would be moving this up the priority board. We should be able to start testing in a few weeks, as ongoing tests come to an end and open up new testing slots.

-Randy

This sounds great! I would also love to see some side by side comparisons of popular salts when first mixed. vs. when stored long term. From the scuttlebutt I am gathering around the forum and local shop owners the "Designer Salts," as I call them, seem to degrade extremely rapidly vs. the good ol' Instant Ocean which seems to have a very long 5+ week shelf life if heated and circulated.

I will actually be switching to the Instant Ocean salt and readjusting my dosing regiment accordingly. It also seems to lend an advantage to being able to have a "clean slate" to dose exactly what you want in your tank without the inconsistencies due to degrading salt mix.

 

[DipSpit]

@randyBRS is there any way...ANY way at all - I can buy, like, a Mr. Chili mixing jug autographed by Ryan - the BRSTV man himself? Not the R.T. guy - he did OK and his effort was appreciated by myself and all the other subscribers out there I'm sure -

But the classic, warm embrace woven by the words "where every week we do our best to help you guys, members of the reefing community, find new ways to enjoy your tanks and find new ways to explore the hobby" only feels right coming from the one, and the only true host of BRSTV.

Rest assured, the autographed jug will be displayed in a place of only the highest visibility and esteem in my home (may have to move mother's ashes, because let's face it; they're not really ever exciting to look at) as to guarantee my guests asking "Why is this plastic container such a prominent feature, and why is it autographed?" I will then, 100% prepare them a drink (almost assuredly a gin and tonic - because really there is no other drink I prefer drinking in front of my reef tank) before I pull up the various video series' published by Bulk Reef Supply for their enjoyment on 43" of crisp 1080p digital delight.

I may have to go a bit out of order to really get them interested - probably hook 'em in with the Theiling Rollermat episode OR EVEN BETTER the episode, during the "52 Weeks of Reefing" series where we decided to go with LED/T5 combo lighting because - God as my witness - nothing rev's my engine quite as much as the concept of professional, expensive, dispersed, beautiful full spectrum lighting, despite the price tag slightly over my wallet's tolerance.

Anyways,

I'll be hitting the xanax a little heavier until the results are out on my AWC system and salt mix storage.

Love y'all.

 

[Jongalt26]

Dipspit, thats awesome! Gotta follow that with:

@randyBRS Is there any way.... ANY way at all I can buy a jug or howabout just a picture of some jugs? Ones that are signed by RT? I just dont want him to feel left out, he kicks butt on the videos too.

 

[andrew james]

In the 35 gallon reservoir I keep my SW in has a powerhead and a heater in it but It's sealed. I do not see a noticable drop in Alk and Ca in week old water. I use Red Sea Blue bucket

 

[randyBRS]

@randyBRS is there any way...ANY way at all - I can buy, like, a Mr. Chili mixing jug autographed by Ryan - the BRSTV man himself? Not the R.T. guy - he did OK and his effort was appreciated by myself and all the other subscribers out there I'm sure -

But the classic, warm embrace woven by the words "where every week we do our best to help you guys, members of the reefing community, find new ways to enjoy your tanks and find new ways to explore the hobby" only feels right coming from the one, and the only true host of BRSTV.

Rest assured, the autographed jug will be displayed in a place of only the highest visibility and esteem in my home (may have to move mother's ashes, because let's face it; they're not really ever exciting to look at) as to guarantee my guests asking "Why is this plastic container such a prominent feature, and why is it autographed?" I will then, 100% prepare them a drink (almost assuredly a gin and tonic - because really there is no other drink I prefer drinking in front of my reef tank) before I pull up the various video series' published by Bulk Reef Supply for their enjoyment on 43" of crisp 1080p digital delight.

I may have to go a bit out of order to really get them interested - probably hook 'em in with the Theiling Rollermat episode OR EVEN BETTER the episode, during the "52 Weeks of Reefing" series where we decided to go with LED/T5 combo lighting because - God as my witness - nothing rev's my engine quite as much as the concept of professional, expensive, dispersed, beautiful full spectrum lighting, despite the price tag slightly over my wallet's tolerance.

Anyways,

I'll be hitting the xanax a little heavier until the results are out on my AWC system and salt mix storage.

Love y'all.

Dipspit, thats awesome! Gotta follow that with:

@randyBRS Is there any way.... ANY way at all I can buy a jug or howabout just a picture of some jugs? Ones that are signed by RT? I just dont want him to feel left out, he kicks *** on the videos too.

Haha! I've passed this on to him and the BRS Team.

-Randy