Can phosphates binding medias give a false sense of security

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you, would I need to dilute it?

Depends on what you are trying to achieve.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Wait, are you seriously considering dosing it? Why? I’m so confused.

What’s your goal outcome?

It’s my curiosity that is asking to do so.

wend phosphorus was raised before, I’ve observed positive outcomes that I’d like to replicate again in a more controlled manner.

One was that Cyanobacteria couldn’t survive in the system from the thread shared above it can be seen in real time a piece of live rock that was introduced full of Cyanobacteria get completely free of Cyanobacteria in 20 days the system itself never had Cyanobacteria over the two years ecperime

observation 2

one of the nutrients in that system done something interesting to coral

this is a common montipora digitata, all my montipora looked like this in that system. Even under the influence of high phosphates

I have been studying a lot during the last few years and I believe I may know what some of the mistakes were on that experiment, the biggest one I did was stop skimming a few months in to the experiment, I didn’t realise that I was adding carbon to the system and that bacteria was high, wend I’ve stopped skimming this bacteria was dying in the system and releasing phosphates in a way that no media could keep up with.
The second biggest mistake was not understanding fully what was limiting my nitrates.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Depends on what you are trying to achieve.

I’d like to try and raise my phosphorus to around 0.1 mg/l

 

[Koty]

I still see no reason to want to, but dosing an organic phosphate does it at least until it breaks down and releases the inorganic phosphate. There are literally millions of different possibilities since both DNA and RNA of every type and size have organic phosphate. Phospholipids might be the easiest to dose, such as lecithin.

I would be careful with dosing phospholipids as the breakdown products, fatty acids and lisoPLs can destroy membranes. Although they probably do not get to reach sufficient concentrations and they efficiently get skimmed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It’s my curiosity that is asking to do so.

wend phosphorus was raised before, I’ve observed positive outcomes that I’d like to replicate again in a more controlled manner.

One was that Cyanobacteria couldn’t survive in the system from the thread shared above it can be seen in real time a piece of live rock that was introduced full of Cyanobacteria get completely free of Cyanobacteria in 20 days the system itself never had Cyanobacteria over the two years ecperime

observation 2

one of the nutrients in that system done something interesting to coral

this is a common montipora digitata, all my montipora looked like this in that system. Even under the influence of high phosphates

I have been studying a lot during the last few years and I believe I may know what some of the mistakes were on that experiment, the biggest one I did was stop skimming a few months in to the experiment, I didn’t realise that I was adding carbon to the system and that bacteria was high, wend I’ve stopped skimming this bacteria was dying in the system and releasing phosphates in a way that no media could keep up with.
The second biggest mistake was not understanding fully what was limiting my nitrates.

Dosing sodium phosphate is just as controlled as any other phosphate dosing method. But if you want to experiment with an organic phosphate, lecithin is a cheap and pure alternative.

It is a natural surfactant, like Selcon, so I'd mix it into a large amount of water and start slowly, in case it impacts the skimmer too much (might want to turn it off for a bit) or irritate corals.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would be careful with dosing phospholipids as the breakdown products, fatty acids and lisoPLs can destroy membranes. Although they probably do not get to reach sufficient concentrations and they efficiently get skimmed.

Yes, I'd equate it to dosing Selcon.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you are concerned about the surfactant properties of lecithin, you could also try vitamin B6. Be sure it is the phosphate form (Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate):

 

[sixty_reefer]

If you are concerned about the surfactant properties of lecithin, you could also try vitamin B6. Be sure it is the phosphate form (Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate):

thank you for the suggestions, The systems has mainly macro algae’s at the moment I don’t mind trying lecithin first and send it to icp to analyse the phosphorus content in the system. I would imagine that any of the product would increase phosphates also?
in last resort i’ll have to go back to decompose phytoplankton to increase phosphorus, it’s not a exact method of dosing

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

thank you for the suggestions, The systems has mainly macro algae’s at the moment I don’t mind trying lecithin first and send it to icp to analyse the phosphorus content in the system. I would imagine that any of the product would increase phosphates also?
in last resort i’ll have to go back to decompose phytoplankton to increase phosphorus, it’s not a exact method of dosing

Im still not sure we are in agreement about what boosting phosphorus means. I’d suggest not using that word and designate it the way an oceanographer would, as dissolved or particulate and inorganic vs organic phosphate. Saying phosphorus is like saying oxygen, which may mean the oxygen in O2, nitrate, water, phosphate, etc.

So are you wanting to increase DIP (dissolved inorganic phosphate), DOP (dissolved organic phosphate), POP (particulate organic phosphate, includes detritus, bacteria, and phytoplankton), and PIP (there really isn’t enough bioavailable PIP to think much about, but lanthanum or calcium phosphate particles fit thus description).

 

[sixty_reefer]

Im still not sure we are in agreement about what boosting phosphorus means. I’d suggest not using that word and designate it the way an oceanographer would, as dissolved or particulate and inorganic vs organic phosphate. Saying phosphorus is like saying oxygen, which may mean the oxygen in O2, nitrate, water, phosphate, etc.

So are you wanting to increase DIP (dissolved inorganic phosphate), DOP (dissolved organic phosphate), POP (particulate organic phosphate, includes detritus, bacteria, and phytoplankton), and PIP (there really isn’t enough bioavailable PIP to think much about, but lanthanum or calcium phosphate particles fit thus description).

The one I was aiming to increase is the one that icp can analyse under the nutrient phosphorus, would that be DOP?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The one I was aiming to increase is the one that icp can analyse under the nutrient phosphorus, would that be DOP?

That is everything of any type that the company does not manually remove by, say, filtration or centrifugation (if they do that). Adding simple sodium phosphate will do that.

 

[sixty_reefer]

That is everything of any type that the company does not manually remove by, say, filtration or centrifugation (if they do that). Adding simple sodium phosphate will do that.

Would I be using Sodium glycerophosphate to build organic phosphates, would GFO remove this element? As I’d like to increase organic and reduce inorganic

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would I be using Sodium glycerophosphate to build organic phosphates, would GFO remove this element? As I’d like to increase organic and reduce inorganic

I think most phosphates, both organic and inorganic will tend to bind to GFO, but inorganic phosphate will tend to stick better.

I do not know how long any of these will stay as organic phosphate before they break down to inorganic phosphate in an aquarium.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I think most phosphates, both organic and inorganic will tend to bind to GFO, but inorganic phosphate will tend to stick better.

I do not know how long any of these will stay as organic phosphate before they break down to inorganic phosphate in an aquarium.

Thanks you gave me a lot to consider.