Can some please help?
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ying yang
2500 Club Member
Hi there .
I've read if go 45 days and turn temperature up or 72 days fallow without fish as there no fish for the parasite to feed upon they ich die,this is what I read alot .
But I have also read that ich cysts can lay dormant ,waiting for the right conditions ,or some maybe little slower to hatch and mad stuff like this,I never medicated saltwater fish or went fallow so no real experience ,only tell you what I read.
@Jay Hemdal is real expert he can inform you much much much better than what I can for sure,and say if any truth in ich cysts laying dormant for right conditions to hatch or if some can be little slower to hatch or not .
As I read some do full qt and still get fish dieseses and read some do fallow and qt and still get fish dieseses,so either these doing it wrong or some truth by the people saying what ive read .I know if qt everything wet and fallow everything and still got fish dieseses I be well mad lol
I've read if go 45 days and turn temperature up or 72 days fallow without fish as there no fish for the parasite to feed upon they ich die,this is what I read alot .
But I have also read that ich cysts can lay dormant ,waiting for the right conditions ,or some maybe little slower to hatch and mad stuff like this,I never medicated saltwater fish or went fallow so no real experience ,only tell you what I read.
@Jay Hemdal is real expert he can inform you much much much better than what I can for sure,and say if any truth in ich cysts laying dormant for right conditions to hatch or if some can be little slower to hatch or not .
As I read some do full qt and still get fish dieseses and read some do fallow and qt and still get fish dieseses,so either these doing it wrong or some truth by the people saying what ive read .I know if qt everything wet and fallow everything and still got fish dieseses I be well mad lol
Last edited:
Uzidaisies
Well-Known Member
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdf/FA/FA16400.pdf “Once a trophont leaves the fish, it becomes a protomont. During this phase, it loses its cilia, flattens its surfaces,
and moves onto a substrate for about 2–18 hours. After this stage, the organism stops, sticks to the surface, and encysts, whereupon it becomes a tomont. The cyst hardens in about 8–12 hours (Colorni 1985). Before the cyst forms, the protomont may be susceptible to some treatments for
a short period of time. However, once the cyst has formed and hardened around the tomont, it has greater protection against common treatments
Tomonts range in size from 94.5 × 170 μm (~ 1/10 mm × 1/6 mm) to 252 × 441 μm (~1/4 × 1/2 mm). The tomont of one strain of Cryptocaryon was 210 × 763 μm (~1/5 × 3/4 mm). The encysted tomont undergoes many divisions, producing numerous daughter tomites (approximately 100 to 1000, depending upon strain and temperature [Colorni and Burgess 1997]). These tomites are released as theronts, the free-swimming infective stage.
The time required for theront development varies. In one study (Colorni and Burgess 1997), theronts emerged from a group of tomonts sometime between 3 and 72 days, with most released from 4 to 8 days after tomont formation. In another study (Diggles and Lester 1996c ), tomite develop- ment and theront release occurred, on average, between
5 and 12.1 days after tomont formation, depending upon strain and temperature. There was no correlation between tomont size and theront release. Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) observed, in laboratory studies, that theronts were released only between the hours of 2:00 am and 9:00 am, even in total darkness; some suggest this strategy increases the chance for theronts to find a host, as many fish may be resting or closer to substrate during this time period.”
and moves onto a substrate for about 2–18 hours. After this stage, the organism stops, sticks to the surface, and encysts, whereupon it becomes a tomont. The cyst hardens in about 8–12 hours (Colorni 1985). Before the cyst forms, the protomont may be susceptible to some treatments for
a short period of time. However, once the cyst has formed and hardened around the tomont, it has greater protection against common treatments
Tomonts range in size from 94.5 × 170 μm (~ 1/10 mm × 1/6 mm) to 252 × 441 μm (~1/4 × 1/2 mm). The tomont of one strain of Cryptocaryon was 210 × 763 μm (~1/5 × 3/4 mm). The encysted tomont undergoes many divisions, producing numerous daughter tomites (approximately 100 to 1000, depending upon strain and temperature [Colorni and Burgess 1997]). These tomites are released as theronts, the free-swimming infective stage.
The time required for theront development varies. In one study (Colorni and Burgess 1997), theronts emerged from a group of tomonts sometime between 3 and 72 days, with most released from 4 to 8 days after tomont formation. In another study (Diggles and Lester 1996c ), tomite develop- ment and theront release occurred, on average, between
5 and 12.1 days after tomont formation, depending upon strain and temperature. There was no correlation between tomont size and theront release. Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) observed, in laboratory studies, that theronts were released only between the hours of 2:00 am and 9:00 am, even in total darkness; some suggest this strategy increases the chance for theronts to find a host, as many fish may be resting or closer to substrate during this time period.”
Uzidaisies
Well-Known Member
So the trophonts are the spots on the fish. They leave the fish and after a couple days
They attach to a surface and a cyst forms around them, they’re now tomonts. They’ve been shown, in at least one study, to remain in this encysted form, dividing into tomites for up to 72 days. They release the tomites, as theronts, and the theronts are the ones that actively seek fish. That’s when they’re susceptible to medication. Without fish to feed on, they should die in 24-48 hours from I’ve been able to find. So to answer the question; it seems that Marine “ich” could last in a fallow system for about 78 days max.
They attach to a surface and a cyst forms around them, they’re now tomonts. They’ve been shown, in at least one study, to remain in this encysted form, dividing into tomites for up to 72 days. They release the tomites, as theronts, and the theronts are the ones that actively seek fish. That’s when they’re susceptible to medication. Without fish to feed on, they should die in 24-48 hours from I’ve been able to find. So to answer the question; it seems that Marine “ich” could last in a fallow system for about 78 days max.
Uzidaisies
Well-Known Member
Real nice. Do some research yourself and maybe you wouldn’t have to ask.
JayKim
Active Member
TBH, when I started my 150g tank I bought two baby yellow belly blue hippo tangs. They got ich within 2 weeks in my tank. I was worried but eventually it went away. As long as they seem healthy and eating it will go away.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
@Uzidaisies I thought that was a very indepth answer and I'm sure will help alot people over the upcoming weeks/months/years who read this.
Can see you spent alot time researching and nice you share your knowledge so thanks ^_^
Can see you spent alot time researching and nice you share your knowledge so thanks ^_^
Uzidaisies
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I tried 
haha!
haha!
Tired
2500 Club Member
Okay, so this is a lot of words that might not make sense to some people, which I think explains the rude response. I'm going to try to simplify this as much as possible, in case that's helpful.
"Once the ich parasite leaves the fish, it turns into a different shape of parasite. It moves around on something solid for about 2-18 hours. Then it sticks into one place and turns hard, which takes about 8-12 hours. You might be able to kill it with medications before it hardens, but after it hardens, it's resistant.
"The hard ich parasite is different very small sizes. It divides a lot inside the hard shell and turns into 100 to 1000 baby swimming parasites, which go out and get on fish.
"The time required for baby parasites can be different. In one study, they took some time between 3 and 72 days to come out, with most coming out between 4 and 8 days after the parasite hardens. In another, it took an average of between 5 and 12.1 days. The size of the hard parasite didn't tell anything about how many babies would come out. It looks like swimming parasites only come out between 2am and 9am, even when it's dark. This might be so they can more easily find fish."
So, after the ich drops off the fish, it takes 10-30 hours to turn into a hard thing. Up to 72 days after that, the hard thing releases baby ich. Baby ich will probably die in 48 hours or under, if it can't find a fish to attach to. So if you have no fish in your tank for at least 78 days (better make it 80), all the parasites in the tank will turn into babies, and those babies will die. There are some studies that say the babies will come out and die sooner if it's warmer, but 78-80 days is the standard fallow period. The ich should be gone by then.
MaxTremors
2500 Club Member
They answered your question though. In great detail. Their answer would help anyone who doesn’t want to be talked to like a child. They took the time to thoroughly educate you on a question YOU asked, and that’s the way you respond?
Yes as a matter of fact it was my response when the first sentence of question my was will Ich survive riding on the backs of my shrimp when I remove all fish and it becomes fallow. Not everyone has a PHD in Marine Biology.
A Biology lecture quoted off the net is really not helpful and it's funny when I ask serious questions like my very first on this sight I recieved no reply but now I received so many because I got ticked about a text book answer about a basic question. I don't post to flatter myself or sound educated and elevated about the hobby. I just want to find the best way to prevent all my fish from dying and since I have asked my first question as to that, I have had no real answers and your 2 sense about my childish like ways (as you so stated) of not accepting the response I received, is well really none of your concern now is it.
tsouth
Valuable Member
I've heard mixed:
A. Yes, Shrimp and invertebrates can be carriers of Ich. Corals, probably not. Ich need a food source (fish) to survive. Going fallow with inverts should work as expected, so long as it's for the recommended time.
&
B. Marine ich will not attach to hermit crabs, shrimp, snails, hydroids, corals, or any invertebrate simply because they are not the host that it is adapted for. As an analogy, humans have many specific parasites, including lice. So do birds. But, bird lice will not live on humans and human lice will not live on birds. The animals need the host they are adapted to.
Other animals often have very different physiology. For example, fish blood is red from the presence of iron-containing hemoglobin, while hermit crab, shrimp, and mollusk blood is blue from the presence of copper-containing hemocyanin. Differences of this nature can spell the differences between acceptable and not acceptable potential hosts.
Sounds like both are in your favor regardless.
A. Yes, Shrimp and invertebrates can be carriers of Ich. Corals, probably not. Ich need a food source (fish) to survive. Going fallow with inverts should work as expected, so long as it's for the recommended time.
&
B. Marine ich will not attach to hermit crabs, shrimp, snails, hydroids, corals, or any invertebrate simply because they are not the host that it is adapted for. As an analogy, humans have many specific parasites, including lice. So do birds. But, bird lice will not live on humans and human lice will not live on birds. The animals need the host they are adapted to.
Other animals often have very different physiology. For example, fish blood is red from the presence of iron-containing hemoglobin, while hermit crab, shrimp, and mollusk blood is blue from the presence of copper-containing hemocyanin. Differences of this nature can spell the differences between acceptable and not acceptable potential hosts.
Sounds like both are in your favor regardless.
Tired
2500 Club Member
I don't have a PHD either, and I understood that. I'm not familiar with all the terms, but if you know what "cyst" and "free-swimming" mean, you can tell what it says.
If you don't understand something, the polite thing to do is ask for a clarification, not to be rude to the person who told you the thing.
Besides, look what it says. Actually try to read it. It says "ich falls off the fish, attaches to a surface, and releases babies eventually". It does not say "ich falls off the fish and attaches to a shrimp".
If the baby ich can't find fish to live on, it'll die. Your shrimp are not fish. Shrimp can theoretically carry ich by having the hard cysts attached to them, but, for the purposes of a tank being fallow, that's no different than the ich being on a rock. The concern with a shrimp carrying ich is that it's hypothetically possible one could bring ich into an ich-free tank, not that it will help ich survive past a fallow period.
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