can the effects of stray voltage on a fish be misdiagnosed as a disease in the early stages of exposure to said voltage??

[Brew12]

If you are not already confused, DC like in DC pumps will not induce any electricity into your water.

Very true, but as you know in this hobby we don't actually use DC pumps. All DC motors use carbon brushes to supply current to the rotor.
The reason they are called DC pumps is because they take AC, convert it to DC, and then convert it back to a variable frequency AC that controls speed.
Even an MP-40 can induce quite a bit of voltage into a tank.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Very true, but as you know in this hobby we don't actually use DC pumps. All DC motors use carbon brushes to supply current to the rotor.
The reason they are called DC pumps is because they take AC, convert it to DC, and then convert it back to a variable frequency AC that controls speed.
Even an MP-40 can induce quite a bit of voltage into a tank.

I believe we may plug some pumps into 120VAC but the pumps run on low voltage DC or pulses of DC current via a transformer and/ or PWC controller. The current does not alternate from positive to negative. Therefore the current does create magnetic field that changes polarity. If my electronics training from like a hundred years ago is still valid , they should not induce voltage in conductors (like water) in close proximity like AC voltage does. I can't speak to the MP40, but I use a lot of pumps that have 0-10 VDC motors.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Voltage never hurt anyone

It is when the amps pass through you you die.

Am I wrong but the person on the ladder is not grounded but has a probe the is wired to the base of the generator? The current is passing through the lead not the person. If I am not mistaken voltage can kill by interruption of the current in the SA and VA nodes in the heart causing arrhythmia. That is why some need pacemakers to regulate the heart rhythm and defribulators work on the same principle to restart the heart rhythm. Maybe I missed something but I think that is how it works.

 

[WVNed]

Am I wrong but the person on the ladder is not grounded but has a probe the is wired to the base of the generator? The current is passing through the lead not the person. If I am not mistaken voltage can kill by interruption of the current in the SA and VA nodes in the heart causing arrhythmia. That is why some need pacemakers to regulate the heart rhythm and defribulators work on the same principle to restart the heart rhythm. Maybe I missed something but I think that is how it work

Think of it this way
You have a hose. Voltage would be the pressure in the hose.
Current is how much water is flowing through the hose.
If the hose is shut off the voltage is there but nothing gets wet.

Static electricity has very high voltage values. But the hose is very very tiny.
Another recognizable effect of static electricity is the shock you receive when you slid out of a car in dry weather conditions and feel a zap. The human body feels a shock when the voltage is higher than about 3,500 volts.

 

[WVNed]

Today I made a worm getter. 2 Rods you put in dirt and apply power to.
In short I cut the end off an extension cord and wired it to 2 rods. I stuck the rods in the wet dirt and plugged it in.
Then the worms came out of the dirt.
They dont die, pop like popcorn or catch on fire.
I collected the worms and put them in their new bedding.

 

[Paul B]

Think of it this way
You have a hose. Voltage would be the pressure in the hose.
Current is how much water is flowing through the hose.
If the hose is shut off the voltage is there but nothing gets wet.

Think of it this way. You are on the ladder with a hose. You wrap it around your neck and the shock makes you fall off the ladder and hang yourself. You may or may not get wet depending on if you are next to a swimming pool or 125 gallon reef tank with a sump, ATO and great CUC.

Of course if it is a fresh water tank with an electric eel in it, you may also get electrocuted and hung.

 

[Brew12]

I believe we may plug some pumps into 120VAC but the pumps run on low voltage DC or pulses of DC current via a transformer and/ or PWC controller. The current does not alternate from positive to negative. Therefore the current does create magnetic field that changes polarity. If my electronics training from like a hundred years ago is still valid , they should not induce voltage in conductors (like water) in close proximity like AC voltage does. I can't speak to the MP40, but I use a lot of pumps that have 0-10 VDC motors.

We can really get deep into the woods on this one, but it would make a much better discussion in person. Depending on the application, a pulsing DC, or a DC square wave, is mathematically an AC source. It may not be alternating direction but it is alternative voltages.
An example of this (and the pertinent one) is that if you feed a DC square wave into a transformer, you will induce a voltage on the other side. This is a characteristic that used to define AC circuits.
I'll also point out that many AC circuits never go negative in relation to ground, only positive to less positive and back again. Many theorists don't look at AC as having a negative component because of its phasor nature. Interesting stuff, but more suited for masters level courses than a reef hobby board.

 

[Brew12]

.

 

[nereefpat]

My 0.02:

When someone here says that he/she has stray voltage in the tank, I don't take that to mean induced voltage from pumps running. I take that to mean that he/she gets shocked when putting hands in the tank and/or there is a potential difference between the water in the tank and the ground post on an outlet.

Induced voltage is a non-issue. But voltage from a bad powerhead or heater is dangerous to you and livestock. And when there is a faulty powerhead or heater, that needs replaced ASAP. And it won't always read 120v on your meter. I've been shocked from stuff only reading 20-40 volts.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Sometimes the slight "shock" that is felt is due to touching a dry, case grounded electrical component (like a light fixture) and the water at the same time. If there is a path to ground, the grounded voltage will flow and provide a "shock".

 

[Jwise]

How am i just finding out about stray voltage as of yesterday when i have had a lot of unexplained things die and happen in my tank and i was at a lost for words i testsd and my alk was high at 13 but everything else in my parameters are good and then i came across stray voltage as a possible issue and now im buying a tank grounder to discharge any stray voltage buildup

 

[Treefer32]

Grounding probe will not solve the problem! It disguises an issue that could be major. For example, for me, it was a heater that was leaking stray voltage! Which means water was leaking into a spot that had electricity. A grounding probe would discharge that and save the inhabitants, but when would you realize the heater was exploding? Possibly starting a fire at the outlet or leaking extremely dangerous toxins into the tank from the melted heater.

In all honesty, I'd rather have stray voltage and see things dying than find an exploded heater in my sump.

Test each of your devices to see which one is leaking electricity by unplugging them one at a time. My opinion is when you find the device leaking electricity, throw it away. .... Also keep in mind leaked electricity will not harm most corals. Ammonia and nitrates from dead and dying fish could cause issues with corals, but electricity itself does not harm corals.

 

[Jwise]

Grounding probe will not solve the problem! It disguises an issue that could be major. For example, for me, it was a heater that was leaking stray voltage! Which means water was leaking into a spot that had electricity. A grounding probe would discharge that and save the inhabitants, but when would you realize the heater was exploding? Possibly starting a fire at the outlet or leaking extremely dangerous toxins into the tank from the melted heater.

In all honesty, I'd rather have stray voltage and see things dying than find an exploded heater in my sump.

Test each of your devices to see which one is leaking electricity by unplugging them one at a time. My opinion is when you find the device leaking electricity, throw it away. .... Also keep in mind leaked electricity will not harm most corals. Ammonia and nitrates from dead and dying fish could cause issues with corals, but electricity itself does not harm corals.

I have also found that out as well not to long after posting about it that

 

[Jwise]

It is only one of two things for me luckily because i only have two cords in the water thanks to Ecotech making amazing equipment in wave makers and i don't have a heater its either my skimmer which i doubt because its a 3 month old reef octopus skimmer or my return pump which im thinking is the problem because its a little bit older it came with the tank when i bought the tank

 

[nereefpat]

Grounding probe will not solve the problem! It disguises an issue that could be major. For example, for me, it was a heater that was leaking stray voltage! Which means water was leaking into a spot that had electricity. A grounding probe would discharge that and save the inhabitants, but when would you realize the heater was exploding? Possibly starting a fire at the outlet or leaking extremely dangerous toxins into the tank from the melted heater.

In all honesty, I'd rather have stray voltage and see things dying than find an exploded heater in my sump.

Test each of your devices to see which one is leaking electricity by unplugging them one at a time. My opinion is when you find the device leaking electricity, throw it away. .... Also keep in mind leaked electricity will not harm most corals. Ammonia and nitrates from dead and dying fish could cause issues with corals, but electricity itself does not harm corals.

That's one of the reasons that if you're using a ground probe, you NEED to be using a GFCI.

 

[NotApplicable]

As a noob: suppose your equipment is hooked up via GFI and you have a grounding probe. How would you ever know there was an issue?

 

[nereefpat]

As a noob: suppose your equipment is hooked up via GFI and you have a grounding probe. How would you ever know there was an issue?

The GFCI would trip as soon as there is a problem. You then plug things in 1 by 1 until it trips again. Throw away offending device.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The GFCI would trip as soon as there is a problem. You then plug things in 1 by 1 until it trips again. Throw away offending device.

Just to clarify though: you need to be wary when test plugging in items that intermittantly draw power. For example, a chiller or a heater may only trip the GFCI when actively heating/cooling. Also, the cold startup amperage for a pump is greater than its running amps. I've had issues where they would only trip the GFCI after sitting for some time. I also find that room humidity comes into play: with having some GFCIs that only trip on really humid days.

Jay