can't get beyond 0.1 ammonia Is it my test kit?

[dave48]

having cycled my tank my ammonia readings are stubbornly set at 0.1 every time, week after week.
2 happy clowns in the tank which are fine. I am beginning to suspect by JBL test kit. Has anybody else had this?
its a 120 gallon tank with currently just the 2 clowns which are definitely not being overfed.
other parameters; NO2 = 0.2, NO3 = 5, PO4 = 0.2, Ph = 8.2
I have been adding live bacteria weekly for 2 months (as per directions)
I would really like to add my next fish but very wary of that 0.1 ammonia. In previous marine tanks always had zero.
Any thoughts?

 

[SlugSnorter]

Seems like test kit issues

 

[brandon429]

You may cease testing for ammonia permanently in this tank, for sure it’s cycled and that’s as low as most non digital test kits will go. You are done cycling, never look back.

 

[brandon429]

you can see from searching google returns that reef tanks show landslide .25 in api, and about 1/4 of them get to yellow zero

that variation is the reason API has such a bad rap for false reads. the tanks are fine, the test kit is what ranges. the degree people follow exacting prep steps per directions ranges

we have to agree that lots of stated readings are from expired test kits, droppers held sideways where twice the reagent comes out into the assessment vial, there are green tinted kitchen LED lights nobody mentions when posting their reading...too many variables.

but not for seneye, those variables won't affect a good calibrated and slide-prepped seneye machine.

that means specifically among cycled reef tanks, you get both zero and .1 or .25 reading on non digital kits. that's why yours used to show lesser, but both tanks are fine. you can't have a 100+ gallon tank with rocks in it and fish + feed living just fine and it not be cycled after using bottle bac for this many days. that's the equation of a cycled tank.

we don't use cheap test kits to tell us if a reef tank is cycled any longer

we use a known cycled reef tank to discern which test kits work correctly, that's 2023 cycling. your condition of a reef tank can't fail to be cycled. if you want to see the true nature of your cycle put a seneye digital nh3 meter on it.

 

[doubleshot00]

If i test my tank right now with an API ammonia test it shows ammonia.
Just saying. My tanks been running for over a year.

 

[brandon429]

post a full tank shot for the cycle breakdown (we use it to assess surface area)

also state total # of days underwater

we compare it to this, for ammonia control prediction:

also factored: any bottle bacteria added is likely to work on day 1, no day 10 wait required it's just icing on the cake.

 

[brandon429]

there are threads like yours, but they state "can't get beyond 8 ppm"

talk about madness. even the chemists believe them in the posts it's shocking what api has stated across known cycled reef tanks. a concerning .1 thread is no problem, that's actually a decent kit you're using if it's that low compared to what most google search returns state.

 

[dave48]

there are threads like yours, but they state "can't get beyond 8 ppm"

talk about madness. even the chemists believe them in the posts it's shocking what api has stated across known cycled reef tanks. a concerning .1 thread is no problem, that's actually a decent kit you're using if it's that low compared to what most google search returns state.

Brandon this is all music to my ears and chimes with my suspicions on inaccuracy of my test kit.
I will stop worrying about it and enjoy stocking my tank. Thank you very much!

 

[brandon429]

hey would you update here with pics of the tank so I can add it to my work thread on false stalls

then in a few weeks update again: it's the consistent ability to carry life/keep fish healthy we think is the most important proof in a cycling thread, those two updates hold me accountable for these crazy claims. *fish disease losses don't count though, those run separate to cycling losses. fish disease usually has unique and targeted symptoms leading up to a fish kill whereas being uncycled often just kills an entire tank overnite and you get up next day and it's all gray, stinky water / legit crashed.

 

[dave48]

hey would you update here with pics of the tank so I can add it to my work thread on false stalls

then in a few weeks update again: it's the consistent ability to carry life/keep fish healthy we think is the most important proof in a cycling thread, those two updates hold me accountable for these crazy claims. *fish disease losses don't count though, those run separate to cycling losses. fish disease usually has unique and targeted symptoms leading up to a fish kill whereas being uncycled often just kills an entire tank overnite and you get up next day and it's all gray, stinky water / legit crashed.

Couple of pics for you Brandon

 

[brandon429]

that is helpful bigtime due to lysmata inclusion, the weakest animal in reefing

hey can you post a pic of your actual ammonia reading in clear light

there is no better bioindicator in reefing than a lysmata shrimp not keeled over. it's the ultimate reinforcement that water quality is great, not bad. I like to try and catch test kits that overstate where possible

**and I like to catch kits that read just a little ammonia but not a huge amount, because we no longer require cycled reef tanks to be at zero that's the old rule. if a kit wants to show ~.1 or .25 or even a bit higher, and a lysmata + fish all act fine everyday, I use that to show old cycling science adherents their rules need updating to match reality.

you have plenty of surface area, the tank is over ten days old, it's carrying animals, bacteria were used that work faster than ten days, nowadays we use the tank to proof the test kit, not the other way around.

a calibrated seneye would 100% for sure show .001-.004 max ppm nh3 in that setup and 99% likely it would show .001. there are thousands of these readings uploaded to sample for patterns in low stock setups...being able to show your kit slightly darker helps thousands of reefs understand there aren't stalled cycles there are only variations in readouts by non digital test kits.

 

[Garf]

post a full tank shot for the cycle breakdown (we use it to assess surface area)

also state total # of days underwater

we compare it to this, for ammonia control prediction:

also factored: any bottle bacteria added is likely to work on day 1, no day 10 wait required it's just icing on the cake.

I have trouble believing a chart as evidence that is undoubtedly a freshwater derived guesstimate. For example “Your mileage will vary”, ammonia peaking at 12ppm, no mention of increasing salinity detrimental effects, no pH relationship to ammonia conversion by bacteria (it’s thought lower pH supplies less NH3 to AOB, and they can’t process NH4 ((maybe)), so although safer for inhabitants, weakens the overall ammonia oxidising potential in say an extreme high ammonia event.

 

[brandon429]

show me only 3 seneye readings out of all the ones posted that ten days doesn't resolve ammonia in reef displays. only 3

find three examples you've seen from studying patterns, link them here plainly. don't paint a picture you can't locate.

 

[brandon429]

the chemistry forum for sure believes this cycle is stalled. recent posts at .1 were told that the bottle bac were dead


we have a functioning reef above, plainly shown in pics, with updates 5 months from now looking just like 2 days ago-just a working happy reef.

this tank is cycled. the chemistry forum puts a lot of credence into non digital test kits

we get to see some trending here in that regard/this is a valuable thread with such clear bright pics

 

[brandon429]

the chemistry forum keeps the assertion going that in each stated case, the ammonia is indeed out of control due to dead bacteria BUT the inherent pH stability is keeping it non toxic

and they have no time window requirements for stating that...if a nine month poster made the claim, the test kit will be believed and more bottle bac will be recommended

but my cycling threads have a cutoff date, a predetermined wait time per setup type that we think can't be audited as not passing on a seneye post or pattern set. I find it very hard to believe that each new tank copies a pH-matching approach

what they copy is swirling warm water, beyond ten day's wait in nearly all cases, added bacteria designed for ammonia control, feed, and a bunch of high surface area rocks in a closed aquatic environment.

what they don't copy is electrical vs gas heated homes, # of respiring occupants per home, gas vs electric daily use stove, alkalinity constant of all make water and salt mix. = things that drastically alter pH presentation per home.

We don't care about any of that in cycling threads, I never ask for those variables.




This is a cycled reef adhering to all the repeating patterns I claim to be the basis of updated cycling science. old cycling science allows for a 2 month, stocked and fed reef to not be cycled.

 

[brandon429]

question

why are some of those rocks darker than the white ones in the tank pic

 

[brandon429]

here is why the chart works well for marine setting:

that's how fast unboosted freshwater cycles work if you run them outside as contaminating nature would present. you do get basic light ammonia control after ten days submersion in a sludged up environment that would be outside

ammonia help isn't what they need anyway: they need nitrite help in freshwater examples so the wait would be longer before stocking


but what is reefing as applied to that chart? if someone studies patterns long enough could they maybe link basic needs we have to that already established aquatic timeline? can't that be helpful in reefing to have a subject # of days we count to cycle completion, vs using API ammonia?

marine tanks=

-need ammonia control, doesn't care about nitrite in the least.
-have massive surface area compared to any freshwater environment, that's a lucky turn. the motion within is fast, not stagnant. the fact we don't need nitrite control and have high vs low slick surface area is a very lucky turn in terms of cycling speed: ability to process ammonia in a reef tank speed.

-reef tank cycles use bacteria sources already known to setup shop for ammonia control either by day one (our myriad skip cycle live rock transfer threads) or they use bottle bac Dr. Reef shows works on day one, if the mix is alive. Dr. Reef's bottle bac thread specifically showed the bulk of working bac to adhere fully to surfaces by day ten, he directly tested the # of days wait claim already. it's logged, we're using that timeframe.

ten days has never, ever been shown in any digital pattern as not the working terminable date for an assisted cycle. by having someone pitch in a little fish food, we shore up the risk their bottle bac isn't dead.

the fish food alone + ten days will get the base ammonia control layer in a reef tank given our volume and initial stocking density habits. the initial bacteria that set up shop to control ammonia aren't the permanent residents-as we stock reef items they're replaced by long-term species that again handle ammonia.