Captive Sizes / Growth Rate of Large Angels?

[Zionas]

Now that’s an idea many would welcome.

 

[i cant think]

Now that’s an idea many would welcome.

The question then is, start with the most common to the least common or alphabetical? I can start a list of them if people would like.

 

[MONTANTK]

Outside of a public aquarium, I can’t say I’ve seen any “large” Angel that topped 12”. The sample size is relatively small but the largest angels I’ve seen in personal aquariums were Emperor Angels. I’m sure there are some species though that provided a large enough tank would reach 14”

 

[i cant think]

Outside of a public aquarium, I can’t say I’ve seen any “large” Angel that topped 12”. The sample size is relatively small but the largest angels I’ve seen in personal aquariums were Emperor Angels. I’m sure there are some species though that provided a large enough tank would reach 14”

I think that’s true but also, even in the biggest tanks I don’t think these fish get the biggest recorded max size before they stop growing (In the wild I find it VERY hard to believe that an emperor will always get to 15”, I think it’s more a max recorded size and not the average max size).

 

[Zionas]

Dwarf Angels:
1. Coral Beauty (Centropyge Bispinosa)
2. Flame (Centropyge Loricula)
3. Potter’s (Centropyge Potteri)
4. Multicolor (Centropyge Multicolor)
5. Bicolor (Centropyge Bicolor)
6. Keyhole (Centropyge Tibicen)
7. Lemonpeel (Centropyge Flavissima)
8. Eibli (Centropyge Eibli)
9. Half-Black (Centropyge Vrolikii)
10. Rusty (Centropyge Ferrugata)
11. Cherub (Centropyge Argi)
12. African / Brazilian Flameback (Centropyge Acanthops / Centropyge Aurantonotus)
13. Yellowtail Pygmy / Fisheri (Centropyge Flavicauda / Centropyge Fisheri)
14. Joculator (Centropyge Joculator)
15. Japanese Pygmy (Centropyge Interrupta)
16. Shephard’s (Centropyge Shepardi)
17. Multibar (Paracentropyge Multifasciata)
18. Venusta (Paracentropyge Venusta)
19. Colin’s (Paracentropyge Colini)
20. Herald’s (Centropyge Heraldi)
21. Yellow-Fin (Centropyge Flavipectoralis)
22. Multi-Spined (Centropyge Multispinus)


Apolemichthys:
1. Xanthurus Cream / Red Sea Cream (Apolemichthys xanthurus/ xanthotis)
2. Flagfin (Apolemichthys trimaculatus)
3. Goldflake (Apolemichthys xanthopunctata)
4. Griffis (Apolemichthys griffisi)
5. Tiger (Apolemichthys kingii)
6. Bandit (Apolemichthys arcuatus)


Genicanthus:
1. Lamarck’s (Genicanthus lamarck)
2. Spot Breast (Genicanthus melanospilos)
3. Bellus (Genicanthus bellus)
4. Watanabei (Genicanthus watanabei)
5. Japanese Masked Swallowtail (Genicanthus semifasciatus)
6. Masked Swallowtail (Genicanthus personatus)


Pygoplites:
1. Regal (Pygoplites diacanthus)


Chaetodontoplus:
1. Scribbled (Chaetodontoplus doublayi)
2. Blue Line / Maze / Orange Faced (Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis/ Chaetodontoplus cephalareticulatus / Chaetodontoplus chrysocephalus)
3. True Personifer (Chaetodontoplus personifer)
4. False Personifer / Meredith’s (Chaetodontoplus meredithi)
5. Conspicuous (Chaetodontoplus conspicullatus)
6. Black Velvet (Chaetodontoplus melanosoma)
7. Singapore (Chaetodontoplus mesoleuceus)
8. Blue Spotted (Chaetodontoplus caruleopunctatus)

(Am I missing any?)




Pomacanthus:
1. Koran (Pomacanthus semicirculatus)
2. Emperor (Pomacanthus imperator)
3. Grey (Pomacanthus arcuatus)
4. French (Pomacanthus paru)
5. Asfur (Pomacanthus asfur)
6. Maculosus / Half-Moon (Pomacanthus maculosus)
7. Majestic (Pomacanthus navarchus)
8. Blue Faced (Pomacanthus xanthometopon)
9. Six-Bar (Pomacanthus sexstriatus)
10. Blue Ringed (Pomacanthus annularis)
11. Ear Spot (Pomacanthus chrysurus)
12. Cortez (Pomacanthus zonipectus)
13. Old Woman (Pomacanthus rhomboides)



Holacanthus:
1. King / Passer (Holacanthus passer)
2. Queen (Holacanthus ciliaris)
3. Blue (Holacanthus bermudensis)
4. Clarion (Holacanthus clarionensis)
5. Rock Beauty (Holacanthus tricolor)
6. African / Guinean (Holacanthus africanus)
7. Clipperton (Holacanthus limbaughi)

 

[i cant think]

Dwarf Angels:
1. Coral Beauty (Centropyge Bispinosa)
2. Flame (Centropyge Loricula)
3. Potter’s (Centropyge Potteri)
4. Multicolor (Centropyge Multicolor)
5. Bicolor (Centropyge Bicolor)
6. Keyhole (Centropyge Tibicen)
7. Lemonpeel (Centropyge Flavissima)
8. Eibli (Centropyge Eibli)
9. Half-Black (Centropyge Vrolikii)
10. Rusty (Centropyge Ferrugata)
11. Cherub (Centropyge Argi)
12. African / Brazilian Flameback (Centropyge Acanthops / Centropyge Aurantonotus)
13. Yellowtail Pygmy / Fisheri (Centropyge Flavicauda / Centropyge Fisheri)
14. Joculator (Centropyge Joculator)
15. Japanese Pygmy (Centropyge Interrupta)
16. Shephard’s (Centropyge Shepardi)
17. Multibar (Paracentropyge Multifasciata)
18. Venusta (Paracentropyge Venusta)
19. Colin’s (Paracentropyge Colini)
20. Herald’s (Centropyge Heraldi)
21. Yellow-Fin (Centropyge Flavipectoralis)
22. Multi-Spined (Centropyge Multispinus)


Apolemichthys:
1. Xanthurus Cream / Red Sea Cream (Apolemichthys xanthurus/ xanthotis)
2. Flagfin (Apolemichthys trimaculatus)
3. Goldflake (Apolemichthys xanthopunctata)
4. Griffis (Apolemichthys griffisi)
5. Tiger (Apolemichthys kingii)
6. Bandit (Apolemichthys arcuatus)


Genicanthus:
1. Lamarck’s (Genicanthus lamarck)
2. Spot Breast (Genicanthus melanospilos)
3. Bellus (Genicanthus bellus)
4. Watanabei (Genicanthus watanabei)
5. Japanese Masked Swallowtail (Genicanthus semifasciatus)
6. Masked Swallowtail (Genicanthus personatus)


Pygoplites:
1. Regal (Pygoplites diacanthus)


Chaetodontoplus:
1. Scribbled (Chaetodontoplus doublayi)
2. Blue Line / Maze / Orange Faced (Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis/ Chaetodontoplus cephalareticulatus / Chaetodontoplus chrysocephalus)
3. True Personifer (Chaetodontoplus personifer)
4. False Personifer / Meredith’s (Chaetodontoplus meredithi)
5. Conspicuous (Chaetodontoplus conspicullatus)
6. Black Velvet (Chaetodontoplus melanosoma)
7. Singapore (Chaetodontoplus mesoleuceus)
8. Blue Spotted (Chaetodontoplus caruleopunctatus)

(Am I missing any?)




Pomacanthus:
1. Koran (Pomacanthus semicirculatus)
2. Emperor (Pomacanthus imperator)
3. Grey (Pomacanthus arcuatus)
4. French (Pomacanthus paru)
5. Asfur (Pomacanthus asfur)
6. Maculosus / Half-Moon (Pomacanthus maculosus)
7. Majestic (Pomacanthus navarchus)
8. Blue Faced (Pomacanthus xanthometopon)
9. Six-Bar (Pomacanthus sexstriatus)
10. Blue Ringed (Pomacanthus annularis)
11. Ear Spot (Pomacanthus chrysurus)
12. Cortez (Pomacanthus zonipectus)
13. Old Woman (Pomacanthus rhomboides)



Holacanthus:
1. King / Passer (Holacanthus passer)
2. Queen (Holacanthus ciliaris)
3. Blue (Holacanthus bermudensis)
4. Clarion (Holacanthus clarionensis)
5. Rock Beauty (Holacanthus tricolor)
6. African / Guinean (Holacanthus africanus)
7. Clipperton (Holacanthus limbaughi)

Now just to do the sizes on them, should we do another thread or in this thread?

 

[Zionas]

Probably another thread where we can start fresh. You can copy and paste the species names.

 

[i cant think]

Yeah, will do!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

One other thing to consider - people are REALLY bad at judging the size of fish in aquariums. Water magnifies everything by about 30%. I can often take that into account because I've worked with fish for so many years, and have had many fish out of the water and see their true size. However, if I say a fish is 7" long that means another person might look at it and say it is 10" long.

Here is a link to an article I wrote many years ago where I used lasers to help estimate the true size of fish in an aquarium:

A Refinement of a Fish Length Estimation Method

This installment informally ties together three previous blog entries: photography, fish size estimation and the HLLE project. Much public aquarium work operates in this fashion, many different small topics and projects may be tightly woven together: While attending a public...

microcosmaqx.typepad.com

Additionally, you need to have a standard measurement: SL=standard length, the nose of the fish to the end of the hypural plate, or TL=total length, from the nose to the end of the caudal fin filaments.

Jay

 

[MONTANTK]

I think that’s true but also, even in the biggest tanks I don’t think these fish get the biggest recorded max size before they stop growing (In the wild I find it VERY hard to believe that an emperor will always get to 15”, I think it’s more a max recorded size and not the average max size).

You could be correct. But I do see a very noticeable difference in sizes of certain fish in public aquariums vs. home aquariums. In some cases it’s probably well over a 25% size difference. I think on a smaller scale this can even be noticed if you keep a fairy wrasse in a 70 gallon tank vs a 300 gallon tank. As with people, some are destined to be shorter while others will be taller

 

[Zionas]

Thanks so much!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You could be correct. But I do see a very noticeable difference in sizes of certain fish in public aquariums vs. home aquariums. In some cases it’s probably well over a 25% size difference. I think on a smaller scale this can even be noticed if you keep a fairy wrasse in a 70 gallon tank vs a 300 gallon tank. As with people, some are destined to be shorter while others will be taller

Funny thing - there actually seems to be two different groups of fish - those that are not size-limited by tank size, and those that are. It may not be a yes/no thing, but there is certainly some differences.

Freshwater aquarists are more often heard to say, "tank size does not restrict fish size" than marine aquarist will. Pacu, iridescent sharks, plecostomus and redtail catfish are all examples of fish that will outgrow an aquarium. Groupers and sharks are marine examples.

There are other marine fish (angelfish and butterflies) that will be growth-inhibited to some extent, by smaller aquariums.

Jay

 

[MONTANTK]

Funny thing - there actually seems to be two different groups of fish - those that are not size-limited by tank size, and those that are. It may not be a yes/no thing, but there is certainly some differences.

Freshwater aquarists are more often heard to say, "tank size does not restrict fish size" than marine aquarist will. Pacu, iridescent sharks, plecostomus and redtail catfish are all examples of fish that will outgrow an aquarium. Groupers and sharks are marine examples.

There are other marine fish (angelfish and butterflies) that will be growth-inhibited to some extent, by smaller aquariums.

Jay

That is very interesting! Is it true that the organs of growth inhibited fish will continue to grow? I was told that it’s what will ultimately kill a blue hippo or yellow tang if you put it in a 10 gallon tank

 

[i cant think]

The thread is almost done - Just a few more to do! Keep an eye out on it, it will probably go up in the next 20 minutes.

It’s up now! Hope you enjoy it.

 

[Grumblez]

That is very interesting! Is it true that the organs of growth inhibited fish will continue to grow? I was told that it’s what will ultimately kill a blue hippo or yellow tang if you put it in a 10 gallon tank

These dang fishes taking steroids' and FGH

 

[Zionas]

Awesome!!!

 

[PhishMonger84]

Funny thing - there actually seems to be two different groups of fish - those that are not size-limited by tank size, and those that are. It may not be a yes/no thing, but there is certainly some differences.

Freshwater aquarists are more often heard to say, "tank size does not restrict fish size" than marine aquarist will. Pacu, iridescent sharks, plecostomus and redtail catfish are all examples of fish that will outgrow an aquarium. Groupers and sharks are marine examples.

There are other marine fish (angelfish and butterflies) that will be growth-inhibited to some extent, by smaller aquariums.

Jay

I know this thread is a zombie by now- but do you think the WC regime plays a bigger role in this point of difference between fresh and salt?

I keep many large Central American cichlids, I have a breeding colony of midas that have 6 generations in the same tank- only the strong survive on fry care. I have had 15” Oscar’s & bocourtis and jaguars, catfish pushing 22” ect. And I’ve always done weekly fin level water changes. But that seems uncommon and impractical in salt water.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I know this thread is a zombie by now- but do you think the WC regime plays a bigger role in this point of difference between fresh and salt?

I keep many large Central American cichlids, I have a breeding colony of midas that have 6 generations in the same tank- only the strong survive on fry care. I have had 15” Oscar’s & bocourtis and jaguars, catfish pushing 22” ect. And I’ve always done weekly fin level water changes. But that seems uncommon and impractical in salt water.

Yes - it could be water changes that makes at least part of the difference. I recall a study where trout were raised in tubes with fresh flowing water, and they grew right up to the size of the tube.

Jay