Carbon Limited VS Carbon Balanced - Ugly Stage

[lbacha]

Help me understand:

All of these threads and "experiments," where you’ve faced almost universal pushback on your understanding, ideas and claims, are aimed at publishing an "article"? That sounds like research, but it’s being done with no controls, no protocols, and no rigor — just presented under the guise of research?

When asked directly about your motives, you said this was just about your personal observations and a desire to learn. You pushed back hard when people suggested you were presenting yourself as an expert or had other motives.

You keep saying you’re making no claims, while these threads are full of claims that have been picked apart and shown to be wrong. How do you reconcile that with your plan to turn this into something you’d publish as “final works”?

How do you plan to publish a credible "article" after almost every claim you’ve made has been shot down in real time?

I miss the day of peer reviewed / refereed articles. Back in the day that is all you could use when putting references into school papers. Now with the internet people just publish whatever and other people take it as fact. I know that many of the posts in this thread are an attempt to peer review someone's work. If the people on this thread would look up what it takes to have an article refereed/peer reviewed they will see that what is being asked here is nothing surprising and valid answers would be expected before your article would ever be considered for a journal (this is how us old folks use to get this type of information in the past before the internet).

 

[twentyleagues]

Help me understand:

All of these threads and "experiments," where you’ve faced almost universal pushback on your understanding, ideas and claims, are aimed at publishing an "article"? That sounds like research, but it’s being done with no controls, no protocols, and no rigor — just presented under the guise of research?

When asked directly about your motives, you said this was just about your personal observations and a desire to learn. You pushed back hard when people suggested you were presenting yourself as an expert or had other motives.

You keep saying you’re making no claims, while these threads are full of claims that have been picked apart and shown to be wrong. How do you reconcile that with your plan to turn this into something you’d publish as “final works”?

How do you plan to publish a credible "article" after almost every claim you’ve made has been shot down in real time?

@BeanAnimal and @lbacha Dont you see all you need are eyes! You can see whats happening! You guys and your archaic ways. Just look at it! Its obvious what is going on. You can smell the balance!

 

[sixty_reefer]

How do you plan to publish a credible "article" after almost every claim you’ve made has been shot down in real time?

I don’t think any observation has been “shot down in real time” I also believe you don’t have a clue on what’s been the epicentre of my current interest in organic carbon.

 

[Doctorgori]

Do you believe that if you were to add that to your experiment that you could gain from it?

Well my particular experiment is subjective/visual …basically begging for a side by side, otherwise without all the high end scientific “toys”, whats the point?
I see some parallels here:
A few knowledgeable visitors provided links, maybe not all are useful but some are “escape hatches” ….I might read some and revise/revisit/adjust …

I think there is still opportunity to change your trajectory here ( and definitely never use “Redfield” again or any thinly disguised variant) LOL

 

[sixty_reefer]

Well my particular experiment is subjective/visual …basically begging for a side by side, otherwise without all the high end scientific “toys”, whats the point?
I see some parallels here:
A few knowledgeable visitors provided links, maybe not all are useful but some are “escape hatches” ….I might read some and revise/revisit/adjust …

I think there is still opportunity to change your trajectory here ( and definitely never use “Redfield” again or any thinly disguised variant) LOL

I believe this thread had more attention that it requires to be honest, it was just an observation thread.
I don’t see the point in changing things as the primary target has been accomplished. The primary target is understanding certain pathways that are only achieved by the addition of organic carbon. A balance between the addition of organic carbon and bacteria production needs to be achieved to not deplete the system from oxygen.
That’s accomplished by adding enough organic carbon that it won’t reduce nitrate. (Carbon balance) anything further than that, it will form a bloom.

One of the primary targets that interest me, is the yield in Protozoa more in particular paramecium that is a potential new food for crinoids and NPS corals with possible implementations in feeding fish fry.
If they want to teach me how to cultivate saltwater paramecium effectively I’m all hears. If they can’t then why should I take note to anything they say?

 

[twentyleagues]

I believe this thread had more attention that it requires to be honest, it was just an observation thread.
I don’t see the point in changing things as the primary target has been accomplished. The primary target is understanding certain pathways that are only achieved by the addition of organic carbon. A balance between the addition of organic carbon and bacteria production needs to be achieved to not deplete the system from oxygen.
That’s accomplished by adding enough organic carbon that it won’t reduce nitrate. (Carbon balance) anything further than that, it will form a bloom.

One of the primary targets that interest me, is the yield in Protozoa more in particular paramecium that is a potential new food for crinoids and NPS corals with possible implementations in feeding fish fry.
If they want to teach me how to cultivate saltwater paramecium effectively I’m all hears. If they can’t then why should I take note to anything they say?

The Title of the thread is what grabbed the attention and you knew it would. You could have done this in a tank journal and garnered little to no attention but you wanted attention you knew from your other recent threads this would happen, because of the title.

As for the rest I am unsure what if anything was accomplished as are most involved. It seems this was just a Ima' gunna throw this stuff here and see what happens. Hold my beer! Hey look sumpin happened! give ma' beer back!

 

[sixty_reefer]

The Title of the thread is what grabbed the attention and you knew it would. You could have done this in a tank journal and garnered little to no attention but you wanted attention you knew from your other recent threads this would happen, because of the title.

As for the rest I am unsure what if anything was accomplished as are most involved. It seems this was just a Ima' gunna throw this stuff here and see what happens. Hold my beer! Hey look sumpin happened! give ma' beer back!

To be honest I didn’t, it was supposed to be just another thread where I could gather information on organic carbon.
The urge to trying to prove something wrong is what driven discussion, in first page I’ve urged participants to wait and see what happens.
The high yield in paramecium have been pointed out in most threads. Just not noticed by participants.
Folks been trying to insinuate that it’s not possible to identify pathways and this one seems fairly evident and solely depending on organic carbon. It’s also one of the largest differences to a carbon limited system.

 

[twentyleagues]

To be honest I didn’t, it was supposed to be just another thread where I could gather information on organic carbon.
The urge to trying to prove something wrong is what driven discussion, in first page I’ve urged participants to wait and see what happens.
The high yield in paramecium have been pointed out in most threads. Just not noticed by participants.
Folks been trying to insinuate that it’s not possible to identify pathways and this one seems fairly evident and solely depending on organic carbon. It’s also one of the largest differences to a carbon limited system.

You can say this but there is no proof of these paramecium being in any of your "proof". You also have no proof of this tank not being carbon limited or actually identifying the pathways other then I see something happening. You added an organic carbon source that should provide x organic carbon but did it? No proof as to if it actually had any effect. This tank could still be carbon limited maybe just not as limited as another tank, again no proof. Dark corner of the this world tank journals without catchy/controversial title will get almost no views you can do whatever you like and no one will see it or disagree with your methods, If this is truly just for you. But we all know its not you seem to like the attention.

 

[BeanAnimal]

This is more of the same. You ignore the central points of the critiques (your latest response to me included), pivot to unrelated tangents, introduce more scientific terms and misunderstanding and double down on vague statements or claims that don’t hold up to scrutiny.

“Not shot down in real time”: That’s absolutely delusional. Virtually every claim you’ve made across these threads -- from selective nutrient pathways to “ratios” to your definitions of carbon “balancing” to "non-nitrate nitrogen" -- has been challenged and thoroughly dismantled with facts. Ignoring valid critiques doesn’t mean you’ve prevailed -- it just highlights your refusal to admit you are wrong.

The “epicenter of your current interest”: Your personal focus is irrelevant if it doesn’t relate to the original claims you made. What matters is that you’ve presented these threads under the pretense of scientific observation, while continuously deflecting from your lack of methodology, controls, or measurable outcomes. You are speaking out both sides of your mouth. You don't want meet the rigor of actual science and peer scrutiny, yet you want to be recognized and published as though you are conducting real science and making real discoveries.

Fish fry and paramecium: If cultivating food for fry is really your interest, just ask. There countless professionals and hobbyists here with directly related expertise that could help you. But that interest doesn’t excuse the prolific scientific pretense, misinformation, wild claims, and deflection that characterize these threads.

Your threads draw attention not because people are “trying to prove something wrong,” but because the sheer volume of misinformation and claims are frustrating for anyone trying to engage in. You say you want to learn, but treat every responder as if they have something to learn from you. When cornered you change the subject or dodge entirely.

If you truly want to learn, then drop the pretense and ask honest questions. Stop framing casual observations as experiments, stop pivoting every time you’re called out, and stop pretending the critiques don’t exist. Right now, all you’re doing is doubling down. These threads are not helping further the information of the community and are actively misleading people who may not know better.

 

[Spare time]

Anyone else just check in on threads like these to see who is still arguing?

 

[exnisstech]

Anyone else just check in on threads like these to see who is still arguing?

The entertainment value is worth the price of admission lol

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Anyone else just check in on threads like these to see who is still arguing?

 

[Doctorgori]

Anyone else just check in on threads like these to see who is still arguing?

I vowed to NEVER use the unwatch or ignore feature…its just generationally foreign to me …

But your post is tearing me up…..just tearing me up

EDITED/ADDED: and will not use either feature here

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

The entertainment value is worth the price of admission lol

Who needs Jerry Springer when you have r2r?

 

[Doctorgori]

I believe this thread had more attention that it requires to be honest, it was just an observation thread.
I don’t see the point in changing things as the primary target has been accomplished. The primary target is understanding certain pathways that are only achieved by the addition of organic carbon.

Well the good news is that at least you know the bulk of us haven't used the ignore feature yet ….LOL

Sometimes you might have to sacrifice personal credibility for a better understanding that benefits the broader community…
Edited... (I didn't like the unintended vibe)

 

[sixty_reefer]

 

[sixty_reefer]

Week 5 ish

small rock how it started

How it’s going​

NPS coral may be slightly larger

Large rock how it started ​

How it’s going​

coralline algae in highlighted areas​

 

[sixty_reefer]

What been happening in the last few weeks.

• there is a noticeable increase of dark photosynthetic of both rocks with parts almost black, there is many signs of coralline algae establishing (will be interesting to see the coming weeks how it develops.

• Nutrients: the system is still fish less and no food additions, I’ve reduced silica dosing and started adding some macro algaes to help replace the pathway that silica was accomplishing, there hasn’t been a lack of nutrients trough out the process I’m still adding nitrogen and phosphates daily via dosing and of recently started adding a fifth source of organic nutrients and trace elements.
I’m a believer that not denying nutrients to the system at this early stage helps with the speeding up of the maturing process that can also be observed with a explosive growth of zooplankton through out the system mimicking a small ecosystems almost.
During the holidays I’ve been relaxed with the carbon dosing at missed a few doses that allow the building up of nitrates as they now stable at 20mg/l phosphate are still at 0.4 mg/l

• looking through the microscope I can still see a healthy population of microscopic life including Protozoa and other single cell organisms.


• Nuisances: there is a small patch of GHA at the top of the large rock near the Red Algae it doesn’t present any risk at the moment as it seems that is dying of. To date there is nothing further to report under this topic.


•thoughts: my interest from experimenting with different types of organic carbon comes from my personal past observations with phytoplankton, my main observation has been how similar the effects have been with carbohydrate extracted from algae and dosing phytoplankton, they sure seem to align in the visual effects on a tank.
With two exceptions so far.


• future plans: I’m still unsure how I’d like to proceed with this tank I would definitely like to add one or two NPS corals for observation although I may wait for the system to mature a little more before I do it. I may also want to perform a e-dna test once I’ve find the UK company that is doing them, I remember that a company was suggested in the past but I can’t recall of their name now.