Changing? Or sick: blueface angel

LadAShark

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About a week and a half ago I received my shipment of livestock for my current 125 reef tank. It consisted of an emperor angel, blueface angel, flame angel, niger trigger, blue tang, indian trigger, and sailfin tang. All of the fish were in great condition on arrival, and were doing fine. I did however see some yellow-orange discolorations on the blueface, but from what I could tell it had slowly begun the color change process. However, in the last few days, it has become shy, and hides a lot in the rock. It doesn’t seem to eat (I had seen it peck at food but now not sure if I was imagining it). It had been eating when it arrived.

However what has happened now is I am seeing his dorsal fin and some of his upper body turning white. There doesn’t appear to be any growth on the actual fish but it does seem a little like the edges of the fins have turned a little rugged (almost as if the fin pulled back a little between ridges, but I might be just imagining it).

Now, I’m not extremely surprised by him being stressed out, as I’ve introduced some corals and also have been fiddling with the lighting in the last few days, however the other fish ate doing great. I dipped the corals in bayer and rinsed in 2 different buckets then scrubbed in a third bucket, and the corals were originally from a reliable vendor, Aqua SD, so I think that the chance they introduced a parasite or disease is minimal (though I do know that some diseases and parasite eggs escape the bayer dip).

Have not checked water parameters lately, but a week after the fish introduction (but before coral introduction) my pH was 8.2, nitrates 8 ppm, phosphate looked to be almost 0 (less than 0.25 ppm for sure, but perhaps a smidgeon above 0). And my salinity is sitting at a solid 1.024 SG. My alk was a little high, at 12 dKh. Edit: of course, nitrite and ammonia were 0, undetectable.

And so I am ultimately worried, especially when he lost much his appetite and is hiding as well as this recent color change. Is he sick? Or is this just part of him turning into an adult?
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HotRocks

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Sorry the pics aren’t extremely clear, don’t have a good camera to take underwater pics with, and it’s made all the harder when it is trying its best to hide.
I think you have something other than color change going on. I have zero experience with large angels color change from juveniles, so I can't be sure. See what the others have to say.
 
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LadAShark

LadAShark

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I think you have something other than color change going on. I have zero experience with large angels color change from juveniles, so I can't be sure. See what the others have to say.
Yeah that’s what I thought too. At the beginning it looked like it could be a color change but not I’m not really sure what’s happening, and it doesn’t seem to fit the more common aquarium reef diseases. Thought it could be HLLE but that doesn’t explain the color change to white. I’m a little stumped haha.
 

4FordFamily

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A blue face wouldn’t noticeably change in that short of time — it can take a year or more to make noticeable transitions (although in other cases a few months with pics side by side it’s noticeable).

White blotchy color loss is often due to velvet in the gills. Large angels seem to come with the strange variant of velvet that lives within the gills but often shows little outward sign other than gradual (2-10 days) of blotchy, blotchy color loss and color lightening, hiding from light, becoming reclusive, refusing to eat, and dying. This often takes 2-10 days, I think two weeks is the longest I had a large angel make it. I didn’t know what I had a few years ago and I watched this happen on 6 or 7 large angels.

Your symptoms mentioned above follow that MO pretty well, unfortunately.

Anyway, this is common in angels with parasites and failing gills as a result of infestations. They do quite well on chelated copper IME that would be my course of action.
 
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LadAShark

LadAShark

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A blue face wouldn’t noticeably change in that short of time — it can take a year or more to make noticeable transitions (although in other cases a few months with pics side by side it’s noticeable).

White blotchy color loss is often due to velvet in the gills. Large angels seem to come with the strange variant of velvet that lives within the gills but often shows little outward sign other than gradual (2-10 days) of blotchy, blotchy color loss and color lightening, hiding from light, becoming reclusive, refusing to eat, and dying. This often takes 2-10 days, I think two weeks is the longest I had a large angel make it. I didn’t know what I had a few years ago and I watched this happen on 6 or 7 large angels.

Your symptoms mentioned above follow that MO pretty well, unfortunately.

Anyway, this is common in angels with parasites and failing gills as a result of infestations. They do quite well on chelated copper IME that would be my course of action.
Well on close inspection I do think it looks like velvet. I netted him out and put him in a QT, I’m about to do a freshwater dip for a few minutes to see if that can give him some temporary relief. Bad idea?
Here is a better pic. He looks to be in bad condition. Not sure he’ll make it. Fishy business aquatics sent me him about a week and half ago and I suspected the fish was in bad condition then cause it looked pale, but after it seemed to be eating and whatnot and didn’t get worse I thought he might have been fine. I was too hopeful.
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HotRocks

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Definitely a nasty bacterial infection for sure.

I would FW dip, then 90 min bath in acriflavine. If you are going to treat for velvet (Hard to see in pic, but could already be secondary infection from entrance wounds) with copper then add furan-2 and Kanaplex as well.
 
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Definitely a nasty bacterial infection for sure.

I would FW dip, then 90 min bath in acriflavine. If you are going to treat for velvet (Hard to see in pic, but could already be secondary infection from entrance wounds) with copper then add furan-2 and Kanaplex as well.
Yeah a bacterial infection seems more likely,

I don’t see anything like powder or spots on him, rather, it seems like his color has faded all over.

I’m fairly convinced that he doesn’t have velvet as in person it doesn’t appear similar to cases of velvet at all. Think I should treat for it regardless or?

This also lets me know the importance of a good camera in this hobby. A hidden cost really haha.

At the moment I don’t have much on hand, just some iodine, formalin, malachite green, methylene blue. I can rush to the lfs tomorrow morning to pick some stuff up.
 
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LadAShark

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Update after fw dip, he seems to be doing a little better.

A couple parasites (wormlike, tiny) fell off him. Hopefully it did other good as well.
 

4FordFamily

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Velvet presents differently in different types of fish. At this point you likely have velvet and a bacterial infection. I’d treat with copper and antibiotics, with lots of oxygen in the water. Your symptoms and timeline match what have seen so often from velvet in large angels.

Bacterial infections often follow velvet or ich.

Angels will arrive a bit faded sometimes due to stress colors. Velvet is absolutely everywhere in the distribution system right now.
 
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LadAShark

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Velvet presents differently in different types of fish. At this point you likely have velvet and a bacterial infection. I’d treat with copper and antibiotics, with lots of oxygen in the water. Your symptoms and timeline match what have seen so often from velvet in large angels.

Bacterial infections often follow velvet or ich.

Angels will arrive a bit faded sometimes due to stress colors. Velvet is absolutely everywhere in the distribution system right now.
Yeah velvet is it, the gills are in bad condition. Blueface is doing badly, losing its balance but still pretty energetic. I am treating it, and I’m staying hopeful, but it’s not in good condition.

What is my course of action at this point? Do I go fallow despite my other fish being healthy? Or would good husbandry+uv sterilizer and a careful eye over the next couple months be enough?
 

4FordFamily

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Yeah velvet is it, the gills are in bad condition. Blueface is doing badly, losing its balance but still pretty energetic. I am treating it, and I’m staying hopeful, but it’s not in good condition.

What is my course of action at this point? Do I go fallow despite my other fish being healthy? Or would good husbandry+uv sterilizer and a careful eye over the next couple months be enough?
Honestly not running the tank fallow and testing with copper will be a disaster. Maybe immediately, maybe 6-12 months. Do it right, IMO.

Methelyn blue dip can help relieve with the gill damage.
 
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LadAShark

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Honestly not running the tank fallow and testing with copper will be a disaster. Maybe immediately, maybe 6-12 months. Do it right, IMO.

Methelyn blue dip can help relieve with the gill damage.
As I prepared the dip my blueface unfortunately passed away.

Now I need to focus on keeping the rest of my fish alive and getting rid of the infection in the tank. I’m going to watch the tank for a couple days and setup a 55g where I can hold all the fish in the meanwhile. Before moving them to that tank, I will give them all a freshwater dip. I will take it into my own hands to ensure the rest of the fish are okay.

I am going to try to get my hands on some chloroquine phosphate.
 

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