Check Valve is Bouncing (AND IT'S DRIVING ME INSANE!!!)

tylr9m482 · Apr 8, 2020

So I've been dealing with this issue for a while now and I was hoping someone here might be able to help.

I currently have a check valve set up above my return pump. Every time I turn off the return pump for maintenance or feeding the check valve bounces for what seems to be an eternity. Currently I have been just shutting the ball valve I have installed on my return line above the check valve since this obviously cuts the draining water. But I am getting tired of the manual approach.

I've already taken it out, cleaned it in vinegar and scrubbed with a toothbrush. I checked the o-rings on the unions, but nothing seems to be working. I did just turn one of my return lines up so it is closer to the top of the water in the display and where it sits now, the air siphon actually drains to the sump before the check valve is even necessary or works.. (again it bounces the entire time until there was no more water coming down), but I always liked have redundancy in reefing and I'd prefer to keep it on than to take it out completely. I have also read many people turn to the WYE valves once this starts happening but to be honest I don't feel like shelling out $60 for a new valve that I might not technically need.

Ultimately what I want to achieve here is being able to program some feed and maintenance modes on my Apex so that I can just click Feed Mode A or B etc, and be able to feed or maintenance my tank and just walk away, leaving the apex to turn everything back on. But I don't want my check valve rattling my brain during this whole thing!

Any tips? Hopefully you can all follow my drawn out explanation!

Billldg · Apr 8, 2020

That's odd as I have the same check valve and when it shuts, it shuts down. First I have to ask, sorry, when you shutdown the return pump, is it actually shutting down, or is it pulsing. If it is actually shutting down, as in 0 gph, then I would replace it. I actually keep 2 check valves, that way I can just replace the check valve and clean the dirty one. Also, where did you purchase the check valve, I bought mine from BRS, if you bought it from somewhere else then maybe its a valve quality issue.

Actually, looking at the picture, it looks like its backwards. The hinged part should be on the bottom of the valve, your picture looks like it is hinged on the top.

tylr9m482 · Apr 8, 2020

I've had the same type valve on my previous tank before setting this one up and din't seem to have this issue. To answer your questions, yes the return pump turns off completely, the valve was bought at a LFS years ago. As far is it being backwards, what do you mean? It opens up in the direction of water flow coming from the return pump.

Billldg · Apr 8, 2020

The hinge of the valve should be on the bottom, the picture looks like it is hinged on the top. I tried to take a picture of mine, but its dirty and I couldn't get a good picture, shame on me, lol! That way, when the return pump is shut down, gravity will shut the valve. Actually, let me check my extra valve and maybe I can get a good picture.

Billldg · Apr 8, 2020

I am just going off the picture, but your check valve looks like this

Sorry, dirty check valve picture, but it should look like this

Mastiffsrule · Apr 8, 2020

Hi,

this is a wild guess. When you shut down the pump your still having the back flow from the return the valve is meant to stop correct? If the drain is still emptying the overflow into the sump maybe the flap is doing that to equalize water levels?

Just a wild guess

Billldg · Apr 8, 2020

And please don't take it as I am trying to insult you, I am try to help you.

That would drive me up the wall also.

tylr9m482 · Apr 8, 2020

Yup, the hinge is on the bottom. Maybe it was just hard to see in the first picture but the flow is on so that is why the flap is open.

Mastiffsrule · Apr 8, 2020

Billldg said:
I am just going off the picture, but your check valve looks like this

Sorry, dirty check valve picture, but it should look like this

You could never insult anyone

Billldg · Apr 8, 2020

LOL, yea that's a better picture. OK, so lets looks at the obvious, when the pump shuts down, and it is shut completely down, the force of the water on the top side of the check valve should shut it down. The only problem I have with water still emptying form the drain is that it would still have to go thru the pump to lift the check valve. Theoretically, the return pump should stop that. Then only conclusion I can come up with is that the check valve needs to be replaced as the weight on the flapper is either water logged or of improper weight to shut the flapper down. I can understand not wanting to pay for another check valve, BUT 60 DOLLARS, now I can see why, but it is always good to have extras on something that may fail and is simple to fix.

@ReefSquad, am I missing anything that could cause this?

tylr9m482 · Apr 8, 2020

Billldg said:
LOL, yea that's a better picture. OK, so lets looks at the obvious, when the pump shuts down, and it is shut completely down, the force of the water on the top side of the check valve should shut it down. The only problem I have with water still emptying form the drain is that it would still have to go thru the pump to lift the check valve. Theoretically, the return pump should stop that. Then only conclusion I can come up with is that the check valve needs to be replaced as the weight on the flapper is either water logged or of improper weight to shut the flapper down. I can understand not wanting to pay for another check valve, BUT 60 DOLLARS, now I can see why, but it is always good to have extras on something that may fail and is simple to fix.

@ReefSquad, am I missing anything that could cause this?

Yeah, I am starting to think the valve just needs replacing and a new check valve would work properly. The one I have installed goes for about $15-20 on BRS, the $60 one was for the WYE which I had read people recommending before posting this thread.

Billldg · Apr 8, 2020

I love the BRS valves, never had an issue with them.

35ppt · Apr 8, 2020

My solution would be to remove the check valve. Does your system really need it, can your sump handle the back flow? I always design tanks so that a check valve is not needed.

JoshH · Apr 8, 2020

Quick side question, have you ever tried removing the valve entirely and test to see if your sump can handle all the water volume when it back flows? If it can, might I suggest permanently removing the valve and run the system without it?

Crustaceon · Apr 8, 2020

I also ran a check valve on my return pump until it started doing exactly the same thing. I removed it. Problem solved. If your return line pumps water above the display’s surface, you really don’t need it, especially if your overflow continues to drain water with the return pump off. When I hit feed mode, the display’s water level drops due to the overflow and breaks any potential siphon on the return line. I mitigated any initial splashing when the return pump turns on by directing the flow vertically into the tank and only 1/8” above the surface at it’s lowest level.

35ppt · Apr 8, 2020

JoshH said:
Quick side question, have you ever tried removing the valve entirely and test to see if your sump can handle all the water volume when it back flows? If it can, might I suggest permanently removing the valve and run the system without it?

tylr9m482 · Apr 8, 2020

I guess I could just remove it, the sump can handle the water volume the way I just tested. I just pointed one of the two return nozzles up closer to the water line and once the pump stops and the water starts dropping, it creates a siphon break. My only worry would be if I bump it during maintenance and don't realize what I had done and then the sump can no longer handle the back flow from a different position, although I figure this is unlikely. I guess I'll need to do some testing to see.

How many people out there don't run check valves? I've alway used them.

Saltyreef · Apr 9, 2020

+1 on removing it.
Clean it if you dont want to remove it.
I set my system up with one but removed it and am much happier with less moving parts.

I would have issues with bouncing of my check valve too. I believe it was caused from a dirty/slimy seal and the weight of the water causing the angled check to unseat and reseat until equalized enough.
Get in there nice and good with a bottle brush and see if it solves your issue. Then you can throw it away.
I wanna see if thats the case with yours too lol.

Saltyreef · Apr 9, 2020

Fwiw i havent had any issues with my loclines being pushed too far underwater during maintenance.
If yours are anything like mine....theyre almost frozen in place from years of no movement lol.
Even if it were pushed down a full inch, unless you have a very large shallow tank, the water it drains shouldnt be much more.

I would test to see just how far your return lines can be submerged...i stick the edges of mine right on the waterline so as soon as the pump turns off, they siphon for 1-2 seconds and stop.