Chemiclean...am I the only one?

[outhouse]

I can only speculate on the fears of a person I have never met, but perhaps because it is illegal in Germany, or perhaps they do not want to use antibiotics and fear they were misled.

They advertise red slime remover. And it's a great product that works evertime without any loss of coral. Now if you know where I can buy pet antibiotics that will work cheaper. I'm all ears.

 

[nereefpat]

They advertise red slime remover. And it's a great product that works evertime without any loss of coral. Now if you know where I can buy pet antibiotics that will work cheaper. I'm all ears.

The box says 'does not contain erythromycin succinate," while containing erythromycin. That is somewhere between deliberately misleading and fraud.

As to cheaper, any you can find should work. There used to be a cheap product called maracyn and maracyn II. I think mardel still makes erythromycin.

 

[Reefahholic]

They advertise red slime remover. And it's a great product that works evertime without any loss of coral. Now if you know where I can buy pet antibiotics that will work cheaper. I'm all ears.

How many and which species of Acropora have you tested this on?

 

[outhouse]

How many and which species of Acropora have you tested this on?

Birdsnest a digi and a monti

 

[outhouse]

The box says 'does not contain erythromycin succinate," while containing erythromycin. That is somewhere between deliberately misleading and fraud.

As to cheaper, any you can find should work. There used to be a cheap product called maracyn and maracyn II. I think mardel still makes erythromycin.

But it cost more if I'm not mistaken. I've tried erythromycin before and it did not act like chemiclean.... like it or not it's a decent product at a decent price, and they will still sell millions of containers of such. I don't trust the German test results. Why is it that Americans have not had similar results?

 

[robbyg]

Who knows what it really contains? This is not a regulated industry so they can pretty much put anything in the bottle and sell it.

There have been some pretty bad products over the years and as far as I know nobody has ever been held accountable for any of the bad outcomes. I guess if your one of the really well known guys in the industry you might get compensated for your silence, but then again I have never heard of any of the top people in the industry putting chemicals in their tanks to get rid of Algae. I think BRS experimented with some of the products a while back, but if I remember correctly they did not seem eager to go that route again.

That is pretty much why I do not trust any of the Magic Elixirs that rid your tank of Algae and yet supposedly leave everything else untouched.

If you think about it for a moment just imagine what would be involved in testing any of these products to know if they are truly safe over the long term.

You would have to test it for at least 2 years on dozens of reef tanks containing a vast variety of species and then compare it with a duplicate set of control tank that did not have the chemical added.
I cannot see any company wasting that much effort on a product that has such a limited revenue potential.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

They advertise red slime remover. And it's a great product that works evertime without any loss of coral. Now if you know where I can buy pet antibiotics that will work cheaper. I'm all ears.

Not sure how this relates to the quote of mine you posted? I was asked to explain why someone 15 years ago used the word "fear" in describing the antibiotic test result of chemiclean.

I do not recall EVER saying that erythromycin doesn't kill cyanobacteria or that Chemiclean does not work. I simply said I will not buy products from a company that I believe is trying to mislead me. If you do not care about such things, go for it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why is it that Americans have not had similar results?

I'm not aware of any tests. The one third hand quote from RC in this thread doesn't inspire much confidence since it seems to say that real testing is too sophisticated.

Not testing for it is a sure way to not get similar results. I'd be thrilled if something actually tested it for erythromycin using a reliable method.

 

[Emerson]

Update: it's been three months since I dosed Chemiclean to my 90 gal mixed reef. Monthly pics attached, still no losses and nothing worse than normal algae on the glass and a little on the sand. For all the pundits, I'll say again, I am not advocating this is the first tool to go to. I have not sent off for a Biome DNA test, but over three years of ICP testing, I've never shown anything out of line except a slightly low Iodine level.

If using Chemiclean or any other product in moderation keeps you from getting out of the hobby, or even gives you more enjoyment in the hobby, it's a potential good tool for me. In my case, and your situation may vary, the results continue to speak for themselves. Pictures are both from yesterday taken minutes apart, not before/after. The first is with straight lens, the other with an orange filter for true color.

 

[Emerson]

Update:
It's been four months since last dose of Chemiclean. No cyano, no coral or animal losses, normal algae growth on the sand and glass. Obvious growth in most of the SPS when compared to September photos. LPS, zoas, leathers are thriving. I cut back/frag xenia and trade to my LFS for credit monthly. Overall tank looks great.

I still don't know what the root cause of the initial cause of my cyano outbreak was. Best guess is low NO3 levels < 1 ppm, but could aslo be temperature rise in the Spring/Summer trending towards an average of 78-79 deg vs 77-78 deg over Winter. WE don't keep the windows open, and run good filters in the HVAC, so not sure if the big pollen bloom in March and April could be causal. It seems when the issue usually does creep up, it starts in late Spring.

Parameters for the last month: Temp 77-79 deg, Salinity 1.026, Ph 8.25-8.45, Alk 7.7-8.1, NO3 2.5-4 ppm, PO4 0.01-0.03 ppm, Ca 465 ppm, Mg 1580 ppm (slightly high, but haven't added Mg in three years. Level has not come down even with monthly 20% water changes).

Pictures are from the same day. First with no filter, second with orange "True Vue" filter.

 

[maldivianreefer]

I ran the ultralife red slime remover reluctantly on my 120 about 2 months ago. Have not seen any cyano since plus no water change required.
I got cyano after I weaned my tank off carbon dosing.
The only reason I did not use chemiclean is the large water change thats required.
Tank is doing very well since the treatment.

hello, did you run the skimmer on when you dosed the UltraLife Red Slime Remover. the instructions aren't very clear on this product

 

[bruno3047]

Hello...My name is Emerson, and I use Chemiclean... Not only that, I think I might start using it on a six month schedule, just because I want to! There, I said it! Man does that feel good to get that off my chest!

Seriously, am I the only one that reluctantly uses Chemiclean to get rid of some nuisance cyano, dyno, funky whatever sludge, and then I wonder why I don't just make it a "once in a while" part of my Display Tank maintenance? I don't have filth and muck overrunning my tank, but what's there certainly takes away from my enjoyment.

I've kept various reef tanks for over 20 years. My current 90 gal mixed reef DT is coming up on five years old. This has by far been my most difficult build i getting to maturity, in part (I think) because I started with completely dead BRS Pukani dry rock. Now, two years removed from previous battles (hair algae, serious cyano, dinos that almost made me take the tank down), I finally feel like the tank is mature. I actually expect 90-95% of the things I might add to live and thrive and feel confident that if I drop $100 on a coral at my LFS or trade show, I'll still have something to show for it in a year or more. I have reef-nerd level equipment and monitors, dose 2-part BRS/Tropic Marin hybrid solution, and have finally dialed in my LED/T5 Hybrid lights. I have seven fish, two shrimp, a clam, and SPS, LPS, and soft corals. I feed adequately with a mix of pellets and frozen w/ Selcon. My water parameters are just about right where I want them (Temp ~78-79 deg, Ph 8.1-8.3, Alk 8.0-8.5, Ca 440, Mg 1550, NO3 1-3 ppm, PO4 .01-.03 ppm), tested daily/weekly/monthly as appropriate as well as ICP every six to nine months. My Mg runs high, but I never add it. Whatever salt I use must put it back in. My NO3 levels tend to get low, and I sometimes have to add Brightwell NeoNitro to keep it above 1 ppm. Still, every now and then, usually after six, maybe eight months since the last time I dosed Chemiclean, I start to get cyano (red and green) and dino flare ups. I try to wait it out, vacuum it out, wish it out. In the end, nothing works as well as, "ahem"... well,... you know...Chemiclean.

Eventually I ask myself: why am I so reluctant to use Chemiclean once or twice a year? I have no idea what the proprietary blend of oxidizing ingredients is, but it works! Not only that, I have yet to have a mortality with any fish, invert, or coral that I can attribute to the use of Chemiclean. If anything, my corals seem to do better for not being irritated by cyano. Further, it seems to clear out my overflow pipes and plumbing. Why do I think that? Because I have to restrict/close the drain gate valve in my primary overflow pipe (Beananimal) to bring the inflow/outflow for the overflow box back in to balance after every Chemiclean use to keep the water level high enough in the overflow box ans stop it from "slurping" air.

I definitely enjoy my reef tank more when it's cleaner, and I think I'm done beating myself up over the slime algae and sludge I just can't seem to shake. I'm not suggesting that it be the primary method, and I get the logic that treating the symptom doesn't fix the root cause (for the life of my I don't know what that could be, because my tank parameters and husbandry are where the should be). I'm also not recommending reliance on these kind of chemicals (Chemiclean, RedSlime Remover, and others) as a crutch, used willy-nilly by anyone; especially those new to the hobby. Try to figure out what is causing the issue. But...in my experience after using Chemiclean specifically eight maybe even ten times, it works, and it hasn't hurt me one bit. In the end, I think prudent use of these additives can work. I know it's anecdotal, but it has in my case.

I'm going to stop feeling like a bad reef keeper if I use chemicals (gasp!) to help out now and then. I'm going to use it as needed along with all the other chemicals I've used like GFO, Lanthium Chloride, Nitrate additives, Phosphate additives, Carbon, MicroBacter, Vibrant, that don't seem to be so stigmatized. I finished my most recent ~48 hour dose of Chemiclean, used as directed, today. I took my UV Sterilizer and Carbon offline; left the skimmer running. Yes, it will make your skimmer go crazy. Just let it drain or overflow right back into your sump or tank. Once the treatment time is up, I found the best way to get past that is when doing the recommended 20% water change after, use your skimmer drain and/or a tube and allow the skimmer to "wet skim" the first ~1/2 (10% tank volume) of the water change and drain directly into a bucket or drain. This works for me. The last time I dosed Chemiclean was nine months ago. I may just make it part of my six month maintenance plan.

The pictures below are from five minutes ago. Please keep the online beatings bearable, but I'm curious what every one else's thoughts might be, and if there are others out there who, like me, have had good experiences with these types of additives.

"I"m Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me!: -Stuart Smalley

My experience with Chemi-clean was that the more I used it, the less affective it became. I won’t use it again. Better to find the source of the red slime problem and correct it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My experience with Chemi-clean was that the more I used it, the less affective it became. I won’t use it again. Better to find the source of the red slime problem and correct it.

Resistance of cyanobacteria Microcystis aeruginosa to erythromycin with multiple exposure

Resistance of cyanobacteria Microcystis aeruginosa to erythromycin with multiple exposure

Here we report a set of experiments in which water blooming cyanobacteria Microcystis aeruginosa was repeatedly exposed to erythromycin. Growth inhibi…

www.sciencedirect.com

"The resistance of algae to erythromycin was induced under multiple exposure."

 

[Double monti 61]

If the system is doing well then just go with the flow.!

 

[Emerson]

hello, did you run the skimmer on when you dosed the UltraLife Red Slime Remover. the instructions aren't very clear on this product

Yes. I let the skimmer run and just overflow back into the sump.

 

[Emerson]

My experience with Chemi-clean was that the more I used it, the less affective it became. I won’t use it again. Better to find the source of the red slime problem and correct it.

I don't disagree with you at all. If you can find the source, much better to handle it there. It's been since August I last dosed Chemiclean; I haven't had anything come back since.

In my situation, I have not been able to find the source. If you read my original post, you'll see I checked and kept all my parameters where I'd expect to have good results with regard to pests. Chemiclean is a long way from my first choice, and adding any chemical is my least favorite tool to use, but a tool none-the-less.

Looking to see what happens this Spring as the weather and house temperature increase (one of my suspicions on what may trigger the cyano). I am not going to cool my house to cool my tank, and I'm not going to use a chller. I am going to see if I can keep the temp closer to 78 deg vs 79-80 down using a GHL PB-3 6-fan if I can keep up with the evaporation.

 

[Emerson]

I missed January photos, but here are a couple full tank shots from a couple days ago taken within minutes of each other. The first is with, the second without the orange true color filter.

Your results may vary. However I have not had any super-strains of any pest show up yet.

 

[gregoryalln854]

Nice pics !! I definitely see the difference . Wondering if anyone lost any torches or mushrooms using chemiclean ??

I’ve used it and never lost any torches, hammers, or high end mushrooms

 

[bruno3047]

I don't disagree with you at all. If you can find the source, much better to handle it there. It's been since August I last dosed Chemiclean; I haven't had anything come back since.

In my situation, I have not been able to find the source. If you read my original post, you'll see I checked and kept all my parameters where I'd expect to have good results with regard to pests. Chemiclean is a long way from my first choice, and adding any chemical is my least favorite tool to use, but a tool none-the-less.

Looking to see what happens this Spring as the weather and house temperature increase (one of my suspicions on what may trigger the cyano). I am not going to cool my house to cool my tank, and I'm not going to use a chller. I am going to see if I can keep the temp closer to 78 deg vs 79-80 down using a GHL PB-3 6-fan if I can keep up with the evaporation.

I live in Florida. Keeping our tanks cool down here is always an issue. I use a couple of 120mm 12v case fans in a DIY holder to cool my sump. If you’re not handy, you could buy them online. Google “aquarium cooling fans“. My fans are good for at least 2 to 4°F of cooling.

 

[Josepha7697]

Ok, so I, like Emerson went through this mental crisis as well. Parameters in check, running conservative GFO, nitrates always a bit high in the 20ppm range and no Cyano. Suddenly starts showing up at the two year mark and growing. Siphoned the sand in sections multiple times with 20% water changes 2x over three weeks. Was adding Aquaforest BioS and Pro BioS with -NP Pro (Carbon dose) to try to get good bacteria strains to outcompete cyano. Changed the 2x 55W bulbs in my 110W UV. Reduced lighting to almost nothing. I have been reefing for 30 years. Nothing was working. So I called myself a bad Reefer and dosed CC two days ago. Now I am Doing 2x 15% water changes over the next 3 days, getting skimmer and carbon back online.

MY QUESTION - after the CC treatment and water changes, and knowing Randy’s reference to erythromycin antibiotic and affects on good bacteria, has anyone “re-seeded” their bacteria colony in the tank with Aquaforest Bio/ProBios, Dr Tim’s, Microbacter7 or the like to give the good strains the advantage early on after the treatment?

The reason I ask is my concern is, even a 30% water change leaves 70% water, with CHemiclean in it. The carbon and skimming may or may not clear the rest from the system. If I add good bacteria from the products listed within a few days from now, could the CC kill that bacteria and cause new problems? Or will the newly introduced bacteria strains settle in the rock and sand and help me avoid any Dino’s, GHA, or other unwanted bacteria or algae? Thoughts?