I'm not saying you or anyone in particular for sure don't take my rant wrong
Chemiclean the key to healthy zoas
- Thread starter Bradsreeeftank
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But I do think that's a bad idea, if your zoanthids are not opening its probably not bacteria related and if it is, get rid of the zoas why kick your tanks bacteria for a zoa? Doesn't seem worth it , you'll never get over the hump if you keep throwing antibiotics into a system that literally thrives on bacteria? Antibiotics have no care they kill bacteria...marine environments are packed full of bacteria you can't expect anything good to come from killing off unknown amounts of it with an unknown chemical/antibiotic.
IMO...
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MikeCRK
Active Member
No, keep it is strict as per the guide on the box - it is medicine
do not add extragive it max three days, change the water, make a break and do it again if needed after minimum 2 weeks. but then you need to give it a longer break later if still issues. Keep an eye on water quality, as them guys just wait for the right conditions
littlebigreef
Valuable Member
But I do think that's a bad idea, if your zoanthids are not opening its probably not bacteria related and if it is, get rid of the zoas why kick your tanks bacteria for a zoa? Doesn't seem worth it , you'll never get over the hump if you keep throwing antibiotics into a system that literally thrives on bacteria? Antibiotics have no care they kill bacteria...marine environments are packed full of bacteria you can't expect anything good to come from killing off unknown amounts of it with an unknown chemical/antibiotic.
IMO...
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If your zoas aren’t opening IT IS likely because of a bacterial or protozoan issue. And I’ll ‘kick’ my system’s bacteria all day long to ensure the overall health of my zoa collection. There’s nothing wrong in using chemiclean to knock out bacterial issues because it’s not an underlaying systemic issue that needs to be addressed- it’s simply the best ‘big hammer’ you can use to treat system wide where a dipping regiment for zoas is not feasible.
Thank you.
Coming up on day 2 - little improvement on some morphs but not all of them. What would you recommend.
1. Wait another day.
2. Add more chemiclean.
3. Restart: active carbon, water change etc... and wait 7-10 days before trying again.
???
Bucs20fan
Valuable Member
While I completely agree with you about needlessly killing bacteria in our tanks. Ive dosed my tank several time with low amounts of cipro to combat bjd. Especially with my torches so close to each other and its a whole task to try and remove and dip them individually. Works Like a charm. I assume the OP is doing something similar with whatever antibiotic that chemiclean is.But I do think that's a bad idea, if your zoanthids are not opening its probably not bacteria related and if it is, get rid of the zoas why kick your tanks bacteria for a zoa? Doesn't seem worth it , you'll never get over the hump if you keep throwing antibiotics into a system that literally thrives on bacteria? Antibiotics have no care they kill bacteria...marine environments are packed full of bacteria you can't expect anything good to come from killing off unknown amounts of it with an unknown chemical/antibiotic.
IMO...
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Cipro is pretty easy going on nitrifying bacteria though.
If you say so let's see where it takes us in the future ,when unexperienced people in the masses take that information with little to no more further research and start using antibiotics all the time. You don't think there could be any other reason for zoas not opening, as if there isn't multiple pieces to this puzzle. That’s good give everyone a machine gun, when some people only need to dial down their new lights or any number of reasons. If someone is asking "why" they are already at a knowledge disadvantage, why blindly tell a large group of people to throw antibiotics at a more than likely unknown issue, its not being responsible and could possibly be dangerous for our future. People with comments like that and little respect for the weight of their comments on others decisions, is an issue that could be bigger than a few zoas not opening, we should look past the glass box in our house and think bigger picture. Maybe other countries have it right , people are just not responsible enough on their own to make the right decisions things have to be taken away so people don't destroy the quality of life for others. It's a shame, as a true American I believe in freedom to do whatever makes you happy, but not if what makes you happy destroys my earth.
We should all think about the weight of our influence on others, let's be more responsible, test ourselves what could we do without the biggest hammer, are we good enough to come up with a surgical tool that's precise for the job at hand.
I think that this is a strange way to reason when you simultaneously own a system whose inhabitants are gathered around the world with a huge impact on the environment as a result of transport, catching methods, smuggling, etc..
Another thing is that these are corals in a farming system that aims to offer aquarists a complete farmed alternative without affecting the environment in the wild at all.
In addition, this is a last-ditch solution to not lose valuable corals, which in turn would mean greater stress on natural environments and more attention from those pushing to shut down the hobby on a permanent basis with increased regulations.
I am not new to this by any means and have tried every other method that I know of.
It was for me unexplored ground that I think could work.. so in light of that I think it's worth trying.
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I have personally experienced this with my zoas while treating for cyano . However, it only lasted for a week or two, and didn't happen every time I used it. Using chemiclean has been harmless for my tanks, and I use it a couple times a year. I always use an air stone for increased oxygen for the fish per the directions as well.
I haven't used chemiclean with the expectation of making my zoas any better. If they are closed up, they usually have detritus or algae on them, or are in too much light or flow, in my experience.
I haven't used chemiclean with the expectation of making my zoas any better. If they are closed up, they usually have detritus or algae on them, or are in too much light or flow, in my experience.
littlebigreef
Valuable Member
If you’ve done a full dose just sit tight. Let it ride the 48-72 hours. I will sometimes let it go 4-5 days before the water change. I run my skimmer but turn off the air valve. I don’t use active carbon to pull it out. Post water change I open the air valve for the skimmer, collection cup will foam/overflow but this usually ceases after another day or two. Some medication will remain in the system but in instances where I’ve had significant bacterial issues I’ve stacked chemi clean doses with no ill effect ( after 1 week from the first water change so ~10 days from initial dose). That said, I’ve known growers that have run it monthly and it does seem to lose efficacy if it’s routinely dosed.
If you have some that are in really bad shape and you can pull them do a metroplex & lugols dip for10mins daily 4 days on and 1 rest day. Repeat at least once even if zoas are looking better.
littlebigreef
Valuable Member
You come in with bravado talking about blowing dust of old threads and how this info is old or out dated. Your assertion there is patently wrong. I commend @dimonb for doing research into the r2r archive and landing on this thread.
Chemi-clean is still the best tool for his specific application.
You didn’t really read their post and instead seized an opportunity to pontificate on the merits of natural solutions and the ills of using antibiotics. This is a specific application where their research got them the exact right answer. They’re a zoa collector with a bacterial out break, are there other reasons why zoas close? Absolutely. But I’ve got confidence they diagnosed the situation correctly, arrived at the right answer.
As for being an American and earth and chemicals and such I’d be far more concerned about industrial pollution, train derailments, forever chemicals and micro plastics than whether someone uses chemi clean in their tank.
Part of maintaining any coral collection above a certain threshold involves occasionally dosing and treating meds. Quit grandstanding.
Ok don't try to see from anyone else's prospective, only look down the narrow road your on, that's great, and further proves my point. Enjoy life and have a great day.
I won't disagree with the rest of your opinion, but with this all it takes is some one releasing any thing from thier tank into the wild to throw of the natural ecosystem, just look at what happened to Florida with the lion fish, we can eradicate those maybe but I'd hate to see what happens on a microbial level world wide. All I'm saying is there are consequences to every action and to do something with out thinking about those is just irresponsible of us as people that share this earth.
This is exactly what I do think about, accept I include things you obviously dont.
My point of view on this topic comes from people way smarter than me in the field of marine biology, its not something I woke up thinking about as an electrician. If we could do as much Research on why we need to add antibiotics, do twice as much on why we shouldn't to atleast have the knowledge of the possible side effects and ramifications for these unknown Proprietary chemicals.
All I'm saying is what's already been said by people that know a whole lot more than a guy with a few zoas in a glass box, I don't care how big that box is, or his collection, knowledge is power, let's try to be the best we can be.
All I'm saying is what's already been said by people that know a whole lot more than a guy with a few zoas in a glass box, I don't care how big that box is, or his collection, knowledge is power, let's try to be the best we can be.
King Reef
Community Member
Experimenting now with it for other reasons. ive seen a video , where March from Fragbox doses twice the dose for a week for cyano. Another where it is being used for stn rtn. Antibiotics are over used in so many applications even ethanol production so i wouldn’t sweat it. One thing i would advise against is definitely do not under dose an antibiotic especially just for maintenance as suggested above. Always dose correctly or over. Yes, i posted after finding this is my search of chemiclean posts/articles/videos etc
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