Chipped Glass: Need opinion from glass "experts." Also need recommendation for Acrylic Tank

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
After waiting over 2 months for a new I.M. 170 EXT, it arrived yesterday. I hired a moving company to come move it from my garage into my house (just 27 feet). They somehow managed to chip a corner. I sent photos to I.M. for their opinion and much to my surprise they said that the tank should NOT be used! I was thinking I would just have to live with looking at this defect but never thought I'd have to scrap the tank! Just wondering if there are any glass workers out there that may support or disagree with their conclusion.

I can't help but wonder if I.M.:
1) just doesn't want to take responsibility for saying it is OK to use and then have something happen.
2) just wants to sell another tank (probably not likely)
3) has good reason to recommend not using it (probably most likely, I'm thinking)

Unfortunately, I can't get an I.M. replacement ($3400) until mid-October and my corals can't wait that long. I moved 2 months ago and all my livestock (from a 100 gal tank) have been crammed in a 4x2 frag tank! If the verdict is that I need to scrap this tank, I probably will need to get a custom acrylic tank to fit the I.M. stand. I hate to do this but I may have no choice. Can anyone recommend a good acrylic tank builder?

Side note: The movers advertised they have insurance but are telling me they don't have it at the moment. They showed up with 3 guys when they told me they would send 4, so I ended up helping. They are saying it is the corner I carried that chipped (which isn't true). I got a battle on my hands!

In the photos, the black band is black silicone. The bottom half of this band is the silicone attaching the glass and the top half is the bead if silicone. (There is no demarcation between these two bands I'm describing). Glass is 3/4"; the highest point of the crack comes up about 3/4".

Tank chip 1.jpg


Tank chip 2.jpg



This is what I.M. wrote: "The chip is in a critical area that compromises the structural integrity of the aquarium. The water weight for the the170-gallon aquarium would be too great and likely cause the aquarium to break at this weakened area."

Thats enough to make me feel foolish if I try to use this tank! :worried-face:

Thanks for helping!
 

fishguy242

Cronies..... INSERT BUILD THREAD BADGE HERE !!
View Badges
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
42,788
Reaction score
246,154
Location
Illinois
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Hi, sorry to see,
I am kinda on the fence here.
1 I M is covering their butt
2 Moving company looking at lawsuit.
before saying i think it will hold ,would like to see a few more pics .
and others opinions, @Joe Glass Cages ?
 
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi, sorry to see,
I am kinda on the fence here.
1 I M is covering their butt
2 Moving company looking at lawsuit.
before saying i think it will hold ,would like to see a few more pics .
and others opinions, @Joe Glass Cages ?
I'll take some more photos tomorrow when I have more light.
Thanks for helping.....and for calling Joe in "for the rescue!"
 

Gtinnel

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
21,075
Reaction score
29,650
Location
Charleston, WV
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I am far from a glass expert but with the manufacturer saying you shouldn’t use it and stating that it is a critical area I probably wouldn’t use it as is. Also whether or not I would be willing to use it depends on how much damage it would do to my home if it burst and dumped 170 gallons of water on my floor.

I don’t know if it’s even a possibility but I wonder if some of the resin that is used to repair glass (like used on car windshields) could possibly make it safe to use?
 
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I am far from a glass expert but with the manufacturer saying you shouldn’t use it and stating that it is a critical area I probably wouldn’t use it as is. Also whether or not I would be willing to use it depends on how much damage it would do to my home if it burst and dumped 170 gallons of water on my floor.

I don’t know if it’s even a possibility but I wonder if some of the resin that is used to repair glass (like used on car windshields) could possibly make it safe to use?
I keep reading about the windshield epoxy but I have a feeling it is really intended to keep a chip from getting bigger rather than giving a lot of strength to an aquarium glass crack....but not real sure.
Thanks for writing.
 

Joe Glass Cages

Passionate Glass Cages’s Team Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
1,173
Reaction score
5,654
Location
Dickson, TN
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi, sorry to see,
I am kinda on the fence here.
1 I M is covering their butt
2 Moving company looking at lawsuit.
before saying i think it will hold ,would like to see a few more pics .
and others opinions, @Joe Glass Cages ?
Oh boy @fishguy242, This one is a challenge!

Hi @Dr. Jim, you have one interesting situation on your hands.
 

Joe Glass Cages

Passionate Glass Cages’s Team Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
1,173
Reaction score
5,654
Location
Dickson, TN
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'll take some more photos tomorrow when I have more light.
Thanks for helping.....and for calling Joe in "for the rescue!"
@Dr. Jim, so sorry to see this has happened. Very sad!

Well, moving companies, have seen this situation many times. Just like any service, are they insurance backed and what does their service record look like? how are their reviews? can they provide references?

Gosh, really hate this for you! And for IM, I believe they are more concerned about liability. its really hard to make a good assessment from pictures. really hard!

So, whats next? there are options. but first, hard to assess with a few pictures. bottom corner is serious and need to be evaluated as such. I see you send me a PM. Lets have a call this weekend or maybe a video call. Lets try to salvage this situation and save you some funds and time. Sorry you are dealing with this!
 

MiniGbr

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Messages
389
Reaction score
388
Location
jupiter, fl
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Soooo, as one of my hobbies, I blow glass. And I can tell you, if there’s a fracture of any kind, eventually it finds a way to break the entire piece. So whenever I have a piece that has any kind of hairline fracture or crack, I can’t sell it. Any weakness in glass will eventually lead to failure, especially a bottom corner when there’s a ton of weight and pressure behinds the pane. So I’m with the manufacture, and say you need to either replace that panel (doable), or have the entire tank replaced, and have the moving company do the paying of either option. They were hired to do a job, and they’re insurance needs to cover it. Or take them to claims court. Which sucks.

I’ve also dealt with this myself I’m a tank. Here’s what happens to a panel of glass that has a minor issue. This was the tank I built myself (siliconed the glass together, built the stand, etc.) and had knocked a edge barely when I was assembling. It wasn’t nearly what you have, only a tiny knock in the bottom edge of glass. I knew better than to risk it, but built it anyways, and 6 months into running, the tank failed. It failed with a big ‘S’ crack through the whole pane. I had 100 gallons of saltwater in my kitchen. Was able to save the critters, but took 3 months to get a replacement panel, strip the old pane out, clean the silicone, prep the new pane, and redo the silcone, and let it cure. Luckily had a friend able to care for all the coral and fish, but what a pain! Sorry this happened to you


2FBCC366-801C-44AD-B47E-657876662E0C.jpeg


C09FD107-B857-4738-88C0-EBDBAF377081.jpeg
 
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Soooo, as one of my hobbies, I blow glass. And I can tell you, if there’s a fracture of any kind, eventually it finds a way to break the entire piece. So whenever I have a piece that has any kind of hairline fracture or crack, I can’t sell it. Any weakness in glass will eventually lead to failure, especially a bottom corner when there’s a ton of weight and pressure behinds the pane. So I’m with the manufacture, and say you need to either replace that panel (doable), or have the entire tank replaced, and have the moving company do the paying of either option. They were hired to do a job, and they’re insurance needs to cover it. Or take them to claims court. Which sucks.

I’ve also dealt with this myself I’m a tank. Here’s what happens to a panel of glass that has a minor issue. This was the tank I built myself (siliconed the glass together, built the stand, etc.) and had knocked a edge barely when I was assembling. It wasn’t nearly what you have, only a tiny knock in the bottom edge of glass. I knew better than to risk it, but built it anyways, and 6 months into running, the tank failed. It failed with a big ‘S’ crack through the whole pane. I had 100 gallons of saltwater in my kitchen. Was able to save the critters, but took 3 months to get a replacement panel, strip the old pane out, clean the silicone, prep the new pane, and redo the silcone, and let it cure. Luckily had a friend able to care for all the coral and fish, but what a pain! Sorry this happened to you


2FBCC366-801C-44AD-B47E-657876662E0C.jpeg


C09FD107-B857-4738-88C0-EBDBAF377081.jpeg

Holy cow! I think you just made up my mind for me! But first, I see you are in Jupiter, FL! That's where I live 6 months out of the year! (I'm in R.I. now for the summer).

I'm sorry to hear about your disaster.... I know what it is like to have a tank give way. Eons ago, when I was young and before I was married, I went to the Jersey Shore for Memorial Day. I got home around 3am after partying all night to find the front seam on my 180 gave way and half the tank was emptied into my living room! I had a carpet which became a huge sponge! When I left this apartment a few years later and pulled up the replacement carpet, all the edges of he Parquet floor were curled up! Needless to say, I didn't get my deposit back! I can write a book about all the disasters I've had over my 50 years of reefing..... but I keep coming back!

Here's the latest on my plan(s): My first plan was to drill through an end panel and mount an overflow box so the water level would be 2/3 of the tank. The idea was to just buy me time while awaiting a new tank; and, with the overflow, I could still use my new sump. I think I'd be confident that the tank would not give way in just 2 months being only two thirds filled. So, I filled the tank half way (80 gal) yesterday but now because of Plan B, I will need to empty it! :rolleyes:

This morning, I found "The Aquaculturist" who builds and installs tanks and is located a half hour from me in R.I. He is closed until Monday, but I am very hopeful that he will be able to come and replace the front panel of the tank! I had visions of smashing my tank with a hammer and disposing of it a little at a time in the garbage every week after getting a new tank which would probably have to be acrylic. If I can get the front panel replaced, I will be as happy as a pig in manure!

Thank you, everybody, for your input! Much appreciated.
 
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
PLAN C: Well, I had a long conversation with @Joe Glass Cages and am feeling a little better because Joe convinced me that the tank can be repaired....so I can forget about taking a sledgehammer to it!! Joe was incredibly helpful and very nice to go out of his way to explain in detail 3 ways that the tank can be repaired:

1) Replace the front glass panel
2) Remove the silicone all around the bottom of the tank; clean well; silicone 3/8" x 2" glass strips all around the base. This is the method that was used to fix my 180 that I talked about in the last post. I've repaired several tanks over the years with this method, but I didn't think that method would work with a corner chip. I'm very happy to hear that this method should work and will probably will be the one I use but I will wait until Monday to talk to the local tank builder I mentioned in the last post. Hopefully, he will help so I don't have to do it!
3. The easiest but most unsightly method is to simply silicone two 4" x 4" pieces of glass onto the corner.

BUT, none of these methods will work if the bottom pane of glass is chipped and that will not be easy to determine. The black silicone in the corner will need to be removed and possibly the sheet of acrylic that is glued to the bottom of the tank in order to get a good look at the bottom pane.

For anyone interested, Joe recommends two brands of silicone: GE2000 Marine or ASI Marine quality

@ Joe Glass Cages even offered to let me call him when or if I tackle the project myself and he said he will walk me through it step by step. What a great guy! Thanks, Joe..... and I forgot to mention: If you ever need medical advice for your chickens, give me a call ! :)
 
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
HOW I REPAIRED THE CHIPPED GLASS TANK

Just in case anyone is interested, I'll explain how I repaired the tank. Thanks again to @Joe Glass Cages for guidance.
Basically, I used both methods (#2 and #3 from my last post) even though Joe was confident that only one of the two methods is necessary. (I just wanted additional peace-of-mind!).

For the repair on the INSIDE of the tank, I used a piece of glass 3/8" x 15" x 6". Joe said 2 x 6 would probably be enough, but again, I want extra security so I can sleep at night. I used a razor blade to remove the silicone bead along the front and side pieces to correspond with the dimensions of the glass. I then used black silicone (ASI) to cement the glass in place. You can see the pattern of silicone application in the photos. I was surprised that I was unable to smear the silicone to make it spread out and fill in the gaps more than it did. (Joe said this was fine, though). I'm wondering if this was because air gets trapped due to the layer of silicone around the perimeter. If I do this again, I think I would leave a "channel" for air to escape when the glass is pressed down.

When it is time to have my Dream Tank built, I will definitely have Joe make it. Unlike most tank manufacturers, Joe does not rely on a bead of silicone along all the finished angles. Instead, he applies strips of glass all around the bottom, as is done with tank repairs similar to what I have done but all around the tank.....almost like a Euro-brace but cemented to the bottom periphery of the tank. Its almost like repairing the tank before it's needed, as a precaution! This added glass should surely prevent any seams from separating!

For the repair on the OUTSIDE of the tank, instead of two 4 x 4 pieces (as Joe recommended), I used one piece cut into two triangular pieces, thinking it may not be as much as an eyesore. Because Joe felt that only one of the methods was necessary I felt like I could skimp on this piece a little since I was using both methods. We'll see! If I end up with something like @MiniGbr 's tank in post #9......I'll let you know! :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Joe recommended letting the silicone cure for two weeks. In 2 more days I can finally add water!

I just learned today that my Homeowners insurance will NOT cover my tank after they led me to believe they would for 2 weeks now! Dang! Now I have to consult a lawyer to see if I should go after the movers (who have no insurance) or my insurance company (who I don't think had a valid reason)! Never a dull moment!!

Here is a photo of the glass and "tools." PVC pipe cleaner was used to clean the glass which is very important. Joe even suggested not touching the glass with fingers after cleaning. (I wore latex gloves).

Glass repair pieces.jpg


Glass repair pieces with silicone.jpg


Glass after pressing into place. It is important to leave a little gap (about 3/32") along the two edges that meet the 2 vertical panes. You don't want to press it so hard against the front and side panels that it causes too much silicone to ooze out.
glass repair in tank.jpg

Excess silicone was scraped off a few days after these photos.

glass repair triangles glued.jpg
 
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Your going to run the display tank like that?
LOL !! Not sure what you mean, but "yes". Are you asking because you think it won't work or because it is ugly? If the latter, this tank is "all business"..... to grow SPS. Goal is to be functional, not necessarily pretty. My dream tank, built in a wall, will come some day but not with this tank or in my present condo. And, as mentioned, I'm reasonably confident that it won't leak. When compared to my other option (sledgehammer and being out $3500) repair seemed my best option.
 
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
UPDATE: The tank has been up and running since the middle of last August (so about 8 months). No signs of leakage and I'm as convinced as Joe (Glass Cages) that there will be no problem.

But now I've had a major change in my "life" plans and need to sell my R.I. condo and everything in it, including this tank. If anyone is interested in viewing items I have to sell, you can read more about them here:
 

thatmanMIKEson

Reefing ain't easy$
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
4,974
Reaction score
5,004
Location
florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
UPDATE: The tank has been up and running since the middle of last August (so about 8 months). No signs of leakage and I'm as convinced as Joe (Glass Cages) that there will be no problem.

But now I've had a major change in my "life" plans and need to sell my R.I. condo and everything in it, including this tank. If anyone is interested in viewing items I have to sell, you can read more about them here:
Good luck, welcome back to Florida
 

thatmanMIKEson

Reefing ain't easy$
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
4,974
Reaction score
5,004
Location
florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Where are you in Florida? I'm moving from Jupiter to Naples whenever my new construction is ready....probably in June.
Jim
I live in st.petersburg, Naples is very nice! It's going to be a hot summer this year, this past "winter" was barely worth putting up with the upcoming heat! LoL
 

Mastering the art of locking and unlocking water pathways: What type of valves do you have on your aquarium plumbing?

  • Ball valves.

    Votes: 74 51.7%
  • Gate valves.

    Votes: 73 51.0%
  • Check valves.

    Votes: 36 25.2%
  • None.

    Votes: 31 21.7%
  • Other.

    Votes: 9 6.3%
Back
Top