Clarification of some myths about GHL or ProfiLux

[Matthias Gross]

Hi

there are a few misleading dicussions with more or less true statements about GHL going on.

We really don't want to be involved in this debates, it is not our style to compare our products with competitors products. The loudest is not always the best. We just want to say what we can do - not what others cannot do.

That said I created this thread, I want to clear a few things about our products here.
Please feel free to ask here if you need any details about features, technical specs, etc.


Let me start with our powerbar 5.1:

- 5 of the sockets can be switched (1 is also dimmable), 4 of them have High-Inrush-relays (160A switching current), each of them has a nominal current of 15/16A @ 115/230V.
The total current is of course limited by the national regulations (USA 15A for the entire powerbar).
- Each channel has its own current measurement (BTW - we have this feature since 2009, nothing new for us)
- why "only" 5 sockets per powerbar? Although it is possible to switch 15A per socket you should keep in mind that the total current is also limited to 15A. So we think it is quite pointless to have 8 or 10 sockets in one powerbar when the total current is limited anyway, you want to distribute the power to several circuits in your house - then you need also several powerbars.
- the 6th socket has permanent power, you can use this for devices which don't need to be switched, e.g. the ProfiLux
- all sockets (incl. the 6th) are surge-protected - so the 6th socket again makes sense
- the PB5.1 has a switch which is also a fuse and indicates if the PB has power
- security: the built-in controller checks permanently if the the connected master (here: the ProfiLux controller) is "alive" and in a normal operating state - if the alive message is overdue or a problem occured the PB5.1 activates an emergency program - you can adjust what each socket should do in this case
- communication: as most other of our devices the PB5.1 uses our ProfiLux Aquatic Bus which is based on CAN, an highly secure bus system known from the automotive industry - even

In my opinion the comparison $xxx for x sockets vs. $yyy for y sockets is way to simple and doesn't consider the entire picure.

 

[reefwiser]

As always a very good answer thanks.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

So why not allow the 6th socket to be controllable? I understand your argument for including only 6 outlets in the PowerBar, but I'm not understanding why it wouldn't be beneficial to have all of the outlets controllable.

 

[Matthias Gross]

the electronics for each switchable channel is quite expensive, I mentiond the reasons for that above (15/16A 115/230V etc.)
so another switchable channels makes the powerbar more expensive for everyone although in most cases it just makes no sese to have 6 x16A channels in one powerbar (as said, the sum is also limited to 15A resp. 16A)
-> in my opinion it makes just not much sense

but we consider to offer also a cheaper and simpler version of the powerbar to avoid these discussions in the future, e.g. 6 or 8 channels with just 8A, no dimming, no high-power, no high inrush, no surge protection, etc.

 

[Matthias Gross]

"why it wouldn't be beneficial to have all of the outlets controllable."

as said, this is the place the connect your controller which needs not much current and must be on all the time but should be surege protected, too

 

[Jerel]

Consider what piece of equipment actually needs a connection to a powerbar. Here is my ELOS MIDI 36 system.. - I believe everything is listed below(?)

Powerbar 5.1
[1] Heater 1
[2] Heater 2
[3] Pax-Bellum Reactor, LED.
[4] Empty
[5] Empty

[6] Tripp Lite Powerstrip
* Tunze 1073.050 Return Pump , 1-10v Interface Controlled.
* Ecotech Marine MP40 controlled via PAB - Vortech Controller.
* GHL ProfiLux 3.1T Controller.
* GHL Propeller Breeze , 1-10v Interface Controlled.
* GHL Doser 2 - PAB
* GHL Doser 2.1 -PAB
* GHL Mitras LX7 Pendant , PLM-PWC Wireless Connection
* Apple Airport Express

 

[Lasse]

In Sweden - one powerbar is limited to 10A in most cases, very, very seldom 16 A

Sincerely Lasse

 

[reefwiser]

Yes not all devices need to be on a switch relay powerbar. Many people like their main pump separate from the controller. I see this a lot with users of controllers of all types. Plus using the 1-10volt control you don't need it plugged into a switchable power bar. GHL sells 2 and 4 switchable power bars for those who need more also.
https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa/product/stdl4-4/
https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa/product/expansionsocket/

 

[Daniel@R2R]

"why it wouldn't be beneficial to have all of the outlets controllable."

as said, this is the place the connect your controller which needs not much current and must be on all the time but should be surege protected, too

I understand how this might make sense for the first powerbar on the controller, but if I only have 1 brain unit (can't imagine I'd need 2 brains per 6 outlets), then any expansion of my system that might require purchasing a controllable powerbar also comes with another powerbar that is constantly on...essentially there's not much difference between that last outlet and a separately purchased surge suppressor (at least not that I'm seeing), and surge suppressors aren't all that expensive. So, in most cases, if I'm looking for an outlet that is only surge protected, it makes more sense to me to buy a separate surge suppressor which will provide me with 6-8 outlets that are constantly on and surge protected. I do realize there is the ability to monitor the outlet which is of some benefit as a failsafe, but not much beyond that.

the electronics for each switchable channel is quite expensive, I mentioned the reasons for that above (15/16A 115/230V etc.)
so another switchable channels makes the powerbar more expensive for everyone although in most cases it just makes no sese to have 6 x16A channels in one powerbar (as said, the sum is also limited to 15A resp. 16A)
-> in my opinion it makes just not much sense

I do appreciate the explanation given above. I think I would disagree with the conclusion that 5 controllable outlets makes more sense than 6. I know on the controller I have now, the power module only has 6 outlets, and there are definitely additional items I'd prefer to connect to controllable outlets. So in my case at least (and I think based on the number of people who tend to run multiple powerbars on controllers, it seems to be quite common), more controllable outlets would be better.

but we consider to offer also a cheaper and simpler version of the powerbar to avoid these discussions in the future, e.g. 6 or 8 channels with just 8A, no dimming, no high-power, no high inrush, no surge protection, etc.

This statement actually I think offers an excellent solution that I hope you guys will implement in the future. Having the option to add these simpler but larger expansion strips would be a great help to the consumer IMHO.

Yes not all devices need to be on a switch relay powerbar. Many people like their main pump separate from the controller. I see this a lot with users of controllers of all types. Plus using the 1-10volt control you don't need it plugged into a switchable power bar. GHL sells 2 and 4 switchable power bars for those who need more also.
https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa/product/stdl4-4/
https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa/product/expansionsocket/

I dunno, but in my mind surge suppressors aren't super expensive, so I'd prefer to just run a separate surge suppressor for any items I don't want/need to be controllable. As I stated above, I have enough items that I actually want to control that I'd definitely prefer to have all 6 outlets be controllable (and still need more). The links to the expansion bars are helpful, but I do hope that GHL does as @Matthias Gross mentioned above with adding additional 6-8 outlet bars that are simpler but controllable. I think that would fix my issue and make me a very happy camper. Since I'm wanting more than 6 outlets anyway, the initial 5.1 powerbar isn't a problem it's the expansion options that need tweaking IMHO. I concur with the first one being useful to connect the Profilux brain unit, but when adding more powerbars, I'd definitely love the option to have more than 4-5 outlets in the expansion.

I do want to clarify that I'm actually hoping to purchase a Profilux soon, and so my questions are not merely "what if" questions asked for the sake of argument, but rather are real questions for me as a potential/hopeful consumer. In most ways, I absolutely LOVE the Profilux controller, but the 5.1 powerbar is one thing that raised questions for me because I really want more controllable outlets rather than less.

The other issue I have is that I am a Mac user, and while I realize there are ways to use a Mac with GHL (Dennis has a great post about 3 ways to do this), I am VERY hopeful that maybe GHL will help us Mac users out by offering their software in a Mac compatible format so we don't have to jump through the software hoops we currently have to. So...that's my wish list for Profilux...an option to expand to 6-8 outlet powerbars and Mac compatible software.

 

[d2mini]

Having owned the Profilux for some time now, both with the original PowerBar 6D and now these new PowerBar 5.1. I have an opinion on the matter.
When first announced, I too was a bit miffed at that non-controllable outlet.
But in practice... I have to admit Matthias is right... there is plenty of things you can plug into that outlet that don't need to be controlled but can still benefit from the surge protection.
Now I think the uproar is over dramatic. I'd rather take the savings and put it into getting a whole additional power bar rather than gaining one extra controllable outlet I may not even need.

Also, you will want to see the physical size of these powerbars before wishing for additional outlets.
They are BEEFY. That's what happens when they are built to withstand the next world war.
Having more of them stacked is probably more compact than making them longer.

 

[Matthias Gross]

"The other issue I have is that I am a Mac user, and while I realize there are ways to use a Mac with GHL (Dennis has a great post about 3 ways to do this), I am VERY hopeful that maybe GHL will help us Mac users out by offering their software in a Mac compatible format so we don't have to jump through the software hoops we currently have to. So...that's my wish list for Profilux...an option to expand to 6-8 outlet powerbars and Mac compatible software."

That we have a dedicated feature-rich PC-software which has been designed for professonal use doesn't mean you have to use it.

Use our cloud service myGHL - this is platform independent!

I think some people get this wrong, they complain that we have "only" a PC software - but keep in mind that other companies have no PC and/or Mac software at all and have only web based tools!
So if you compare you should see we offer the cloud service and as an free add-on our professional GHL Control Center.

That said, it is not that simple to just write something for Mac. We have been working on the PC software now for nearly 20 years, it is impossible (unaffordable) to do all this again for Mac, you can't afford to invest tenthousands of $ for a free software, at least not in this industry. Consider this: It is something completely different when for instance companies like Adobe with Photoshop with millions of paying customers have versions for several OS - this is just impossible for smaller companies, especially when all should be free.

We better put our energy in myGHL.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

"The other issue I have is that I am a Mac user, and while I realize there are ways to use a Mac with GHL (Dennis has a great post about 3 ways to do this), I am VERY hopeful that maybe GHL will help us Mac users out by offering their software in a Mac compatible format so we don't have to jump through the software hoops we currently have to. So...that's my wish list for Profilux...an option to expand to 6-8 outlet powerbars and Mac compatible software."

That we have a dedicated feature-rich PC-software which has been designed for professonal use doesn't mean you have to use it.

Use our cloud service myGHL - this is platform independent!

I think some people get this wrong, they complain that we have "only" a PC software - but keep in mind that other companies have no PC and/or Mac software at all and have only web based tools!
So if you compare you should see we offer the cloud service and as an free add-on our professional GHL Control Center.

That said, it is not that simple to just write something for Mac. We have been working on the PC software now for nearly 20 years, it is impossible (unaffordable) to do all this again for Mac, you can't afford to invest tenthousands of $ for a free software, at least not in this industry. Consider this: It is something completely different when for instance companies like Adobe with Photoshop with millions of paying customers have versions for several OS - this is just impossible for smaller companies, especially when all should be free.

We better put our energy in myGHL.

Ok. So maybe this was my misunderstanding. I thought Windows/PC was needed to initially program the profilux and also to update it. Is that not the case? If everything can be done in cloud that can be done through the software, I completely agree with you...the issue might be misunderstanding.

 

[Matthias Gross]

The ProfiLux 4 has a web interface for the basic WiFi settings, this interface will be updated with the next release and will then also allow to register for myGHL.
From that point you access the ProfiLux with myGHL.

For the firmware update - yes, you are right, now only the PC software is capable to do this. But this will also be changed, later the update over the web interface will be possible, too.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

The ProfiLux 4 has a web interface for the basic WiFi settings, this interface will be updated with the next release will then also allow to register for myGHL.
From that point you access with myGHL.

For the firmware update - yes, you are right, now only the PC software is capable to do this. But this will also be changed, later the update over the web interface will be possible, too.

Cool! I think once you guys implement this, that will solve all the inconvenience issues for Mac users.

 

[Support@GHLUSA]

I have a power strip plugged into my ALWAYS ON outlet, this power strip powers my Profilux, Doser2.1, Mitras, Tunze 6055/6095/6095, RE Pump controller, and some other misc items that either have 0-10v control, or just stay always on. I Control my Mitras Wirelessly via the PWC add-in card. Return pump is controlled via 0-10v, so are the power heads.

In reality, so much of the equipment can be controlled not only by power, but also by signal. Frequently signal control is much more gentle on the controlled equipment than constantly power cycling it.

• DC Powerheads? 0-10v Included
• DC return pumps? 0-10v Included
• Mitras lights? GHL PWC Wireless control
• Gyre? o-10v Included
• Vortechs? GHL Vortech module.
• Doser? GHL Doser via PAB

 

[Lasse]

@Matthias Gross

That we have a dedicated feature-rich PC-software which has been designed for professonal use doesn't mean you have to use it.

I hope that you will continue to develop this software - its excellent when you have large installations with many different tanks or stations and when you (as I do) work with the systems nearly every day for hours.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[d2mini]

I Control my Mitras Wirelessly via the PWC add-in card. Return pump is controlled via 0-10v, so are the power heads.

In reality, so much of the equipment can be controlled not only by power, but also by signal. Frequently signal control is much more gentle on the controlled equipment than constantly power cycling it.

• DC Powerheads? 0-10v Included
• DC return pumps? 0-10v Included
• Mitras lights? GHL PWC Wireless control
• Gyre? o-10v Included
• Vortechs? GHL Vortech module.
• Doser? GHL Doser via PAB

This is a great point.
Here's Marco's thread on using the 0-10v option...
http://reef2reef.com/threads/howto-0-10v-control-return-pump.274565/

 

[Robthorn]

I have to catch up here but wanted to comment before my break is over and I forget. I am still waiting on the P4 so I am not a user yet but the more I think about that 6th outlet not being switchable the more I like it.
I will have 3 powerbars because I control everything or at least I want the ability to. Maybe once I get it and start programming I will realize I need less but I do want all of my power strips to look exactly the same.

Back to the 6th outlet. The first powerbar will have the profilux plugged into socket 6. That bar will plug into a battery back up.
The second bar will also plug into a battery backup. This #6 outlet will have a powerhead that will run if the power goes out.
The 3rd bar will plug directly into the wall with a 12v power adapter plugged into the Profilux. When the wall power is gone the Profilux will be programmed to shut down almost everything to just keep stuff alive as long as possible on the battery backup.

So unless you need more than 15 switched outlets I don't see the complaint on that 6th outlet. It is very useful as it is and cannot for any reason stick in the wrong position.

I like safeties built in like in case my ph goes through the roof my doser can be switched off.
Skimmers and pumps switched for feed cycles or maintenance. 1 button push is very nice.

 

[Vegard Myrvang]

Let me start with our powerbar 5.1:

- why "only" 5 sockets per powerbar? Although it is possible to switch 15A per socket you should keep in mind that the total current is also limited to 15A. So we think it is quite pointless to have 8 or 10 sockets in one powerbar when the total current is limited anyway, you want to distribute the power to several circuits in your house - then you need also several powerbars.

With 230 and 16A you have 3680W.
In my case i use 600W for heating, 50W return pump, 40w return pump 2, ato 25W? and a 35w skimmer.
Thats a total of 750w, plenty of room for more sockets.
Its a 1000 liter system.

 

[Pmj]

Matthias/GHL team,
Question about the Mitras 7206 as I am a new owner.

What are the circumstances in which the lights revert to factory defaults? In my experience, about 50% of the time I either pull the plug or the power goes out, the lights revert to factory settings. Luckily, this maintains the IP address, so I can connect via GCC without using USB and upload my backup of the config over wireless, but still highly annoying. If this happens while I'm gone, lights could not even be on b/c it reverted to standalone and is not receiving the light program.

What exactly is the master/slave relationship? It seems that it's only for the light schedule, which doesn't make much sense to me. Energy options and other things should be synced as well. Are we supposed to backup each light?

Also, setting the time (in my opinion) should be a one-time thing and not overwritten by a restore of the config. Maybe the firmware could be updated to maintain that, as it does IP address, b/c I can't see any reason for time not to be saved just as a computer would do so (unless manually changed).

Thanks