Clarify Mixed Messages

[vetteguy53081]

What instrument are you using to test salt level ?
Any signs of leakage ?
What is your tank temperature?

As for employee- Take your business elsewhere if thats the way they welcome a customer with concerns

 

[CharlieAsh]

Do you see any spots on the top or sides outside the tank where there are salt deposits?
It is true that salt does not evaporate, so evaporation is replaced with fresh water only. Salt is typically lost through "salt creep", where salt deposits are left after splash or trickle-leak water evaporate outside the tank water. Salt will also be lost in any operation where water is removed from the tank, such as running a foam fractionator/protein skimmer and (obviously) water changes or sand-bed-cleaning siphon water.

Can you share any pictures? What is the tank volume? What equipment are you running?

the tank is 120 gallon total. There are salt deposits under the tank, I can't be sure if that is new or not. The lid over the filter socks, for instance, is very scratchy with salt. I also had to move the power strip outside of the tank area because of the corrosion from salt. It is possib

Just want to make sure you’re not judging top off by your display water line but by which section holds your return pump.

Topping off to a line in the return section of the sump

 

[CharlieAsh]

What instrument are you using to test salt level ?
Any signs of leakage ?
What is your tank temperature?

As for employee- Take your business elsewhere if thats the way they welcome a customer with concerns

I don't have a thermometer at the moment. I live in Southern California near the beach so the ambient temp is fairly constant all year. Heaters are next on the list though.

No direct sign of leakage, but I can do a thorough search. Nothing big, that is for sure.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I don't have a thermometer at the moment. I live in Southern California near the beach so the ambient temp is fairly constant all year. Heaters are next on the list though.

No direct sign of leakage, but I can do a thorough search. Nothing big, that is for sure.

Temperature often affects salinity and important to know tank temp

 

[Soren]

the tank is 120 gallon total. There are salt deposits under the tank, I can't be sure if that is new or not. The lid over the filter socks, for instance, is very scratchy with salt. I also had to move the power strip outside of the tank area because of the corrosion from salt. It is possib

Topping off to a line in the return section of the sump

Clean up salt deposits and see how fast they build up again if they do. This should help indicate if you have significant salt creep.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

No thermometer. No heater.
What are you using to measure salt?
The same thing as the store?
This is like going red Robin. Lol
D

 

[youcallmenny1]

Clean up salt deposits and see how fast they build up again if they do. This should help indicate if you have significant salt creep.

I know we're trying to help him find the issue but on 120g tank a salt escape big enough to lower salinity would be really, really obvious I think. I'd be pretty skeptical of the refractometer being used myself.

 

[Soren]

I know we're trying to help him find the issue but on 120g tank a salt escape big enough to lower salinity would be really, really obvious I think. I'd be pretty skeptical of the refractometer being used myself.

Agreed, but to address skepticism for the refractometer use, I believe salinity measures were verified at the LFS as well? I'd like to see more data points and pictures of the setup before we can figure out this issue.

For a 120 gallon, salt creep would have to come from a significant leak (which is not really salt creep anymore) to affect salinity noticeably over a few days, but it may be a slight contributing factor if other things are lowering salinity at small rates as well, such as wet skimming.

 

[youcallmenny1]

Agreed, but to address skepticism for the refractometer use, I believe salinity measures were verified at the LFS as well? I'd like to see more data points and pictures of the setup before we can figure out this issue.

For a 120 gallon, salt creep would have to come from a significant leak (which is not really salt creep anymore) to affect salinity noticeably over a few days, but it may be a slight contributing factor if other things are lowering salinity at small rates as well, such as wet skimming.

Agreed as well but I'll also say I'm pretty skeptical of this LFS... I think we need to hear more about how it's being measured and about the setup such as how the skimmer is functioning.

The thing is though, we all run saltwater aquariums. We know for a fact that salt doesn't just disappear. Either there is a very severe amount of water being removed and replaced with freshwater or the readings are off. OP keeps saying "acceptable range" instead of a hard reading too which makes it hard to discern exactly how much loss we're looking at here.

 

[DeniseAndy]

As stated many times, get a good refractometer and calibrating solution. Measure specific gravity a couple times a day. See what you are getting.

I cannot imagine you would not see an issue if you are losing salt. Make sure your water changes are correct salinity also.

Top off water is fresh water. At least that is what I have used for 20 years. My tanks specific gravity is pretty constant.

 

[Soren]

Agreed as well but I'll also say I'm pretty skeptical of this LFS... I think we need to hear more about how it's being measured and about the setup such as how the skimmer is functioning.

The thing is though, we all run saltwater aquariums. We know for a fact that salt doesn't just disappear. Either there is a very severe amount of water being removed and replaced with freshwater or the readings are off. OP keeps saying "acceptable range" instead of a hard reading too which makes it hard to discern exactly how much loss we're looking at here.

I agree completely. My previous comments do not show the full level of my actual skepticism of many aspects of this issue... especially after I learned it is a 120-gallon system.

Even though swing-arm hygrometers are not incredibly accurate, they are a cheap way to verify stability of salinity if you ensure all bubbles are knocked off the needle.

 

[Airwolf]

Auto water changes set up on the system? Does it work together with the ATO, meaning is the ATO disabled when the water change is happening. Even if it isn't an automated system, need to make sure the ATO is off when doing water changes.

Assuming the testing method is sound and calibrated. Salt water is being removed from the system somewhere, and being replaced with fresh water. Weather it is by leaking, skimming, water changes, thirsty pet, we don't know, but that is what the OP should be looking for, where the water is being lost.

If I were the OP I would start keeping a log of water I remove from the system from testing, skimming, water changes add that much salt water back in, and see what happens with salinity. Might even be beneficial to manually top water off instead of using an ATO in this situation so you can notice when the water level has dropped dramatically and start understanding when it is happening, gradually or all at once that will help get to the why it is happening....

 

[CharlieAsh]

Auto water changes set up on the system? Does it work together with the ATO, meaning is the ATO disabled when the water change is happening. Even if it isn't an automated system, need to make sure the ATO is off when doing water changes.

Assuming the testing method is sound and calibrated. Salt water is being removed from the system somewhere, and being replaced with fresh water. Weather it is by leaking, skimming, water changes, thirsty pet, we don't know, but that is what the OP should be looking for, where the water is being lost.

If I were the OP I would start keeping a log of water I remove from the system from testing, skimming, water changes add that much salt water back in, and see what happens with salinity. Might even be beneficial to manually top water off instead of using an ATO in this situation so you can notice when the water level has dropped dramatically and start understanding when it is happening, gradually or all at once that will help get to the why it is happening....

I manually add water, but it is a good idea to track amount and frequency.

 

[CharlieAsh]

Agreed, but to address skepticism for the refractometer use, I believe salinity measures were verified at the LFS as well? I'd like to see more data points and pictures of the setup before we can figure out this issue.

For a 120 gallon, salt creep would have to come from a significant leak (which is not really salt creep anymore) to affect salinity noticeably over a few days, but it may be a slight contributing factor if other things are lowering salinity at small rates as well, such as wet skimming.

You are correct, all salt measurements are verified at the LFS as they have funding for far superior equipment. I have to be careful about how I spend money on this tank, and there have been priorities before more advanced testing equipment. I currently am using a swing arm test at home that I keep clean and verify results when I get water refills. I hope you can understand how intimidating this can be, and how frustrating to know that it *shouldn't* be a problem.

Can you elaborate on wet skimming? (If it has been previously answered, I will edit this to remove the question.)

 

[dvgyfresh]

Give us pics of cabinet , tank skimmer overflow ect .. salt does not evaporate it’s either a ton of salt creep , constant wet skimming or a leak

 

[Soren]

You are correct, all salt measurements are verified at the LFS as they have funding for far superior equipment. I have to be careful about how I spend money on this tank, and there have been priorities before more advanced testing equipment. I currently am using a swing arm test at home that I keep clean and verify results when I get water refills. I hope you can understand how intimidating this can be, and how frustrating to know that it *shouldn't* be a problem.

Can you elaborate on wet skimming? (If it has been previously answered, I will edit this to remove the question.)

Wet skimming is when your skimmer cup has a lot of water in it versus thicker waste deposit more like slimy soil. If the skimmer is pulling primarily waste, you won't remove much salt from your system using the skimmer. If the skimmer cup pulls a lot of water and you empty it often (about daily or so), the volume of water that the skimmer removes would need to be replaced with salt water rather than fresh water when topping off.

A swing-arm hygrometer, though not exactly accurate or completely reliable for the number measured, will give measurements precise enough to indicate stability between measurements. It is the cheapest and simplest gauge for salinity stability that I have found. Just make sure that you tap the hygrometer under water to ensure that no bubbles are sticking to the swing-arm.