Clarity on Tropic Marin Part C

[Lou Ekus]

@Randy Holmes-Farley or Tropic Marin,
Could at least part of the salinity issue be offset by dosing the maximum amount of saturated kalkwasser 1st, then performing whatever 2,3 or 4 part magic you want based on that baseline? Even if the saturated kalk can’t keep up with demand, why not dose some amount less than your daily min evap rate as a matter of course? Could using simpler cheaper kalk save on these other supplements?

I would think that in theory, this might decrease the ionic imbalance by some amount. I, personally, am not a fan of the ph shift from larger kalkwasser dosing. But that is my personal preference and probably prompts an entirely other thread!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley or Tropic Marin,
Could at least part of the salinity issue be offset by dosing the maximum amount of saturated kalkwasser 1st, then performing whatever 2,3 or 4 part magic you want based on that baseline? Even if the saturated kalk can’t keep up with demand, why not dose some amount less than your daily min evap rate as a matter of course? Could using simpler cheaper kalk save on these other supplements?

Any of the demand that you use limewater (kalkwasser) for, reduces the need for part C. Kalkwasser has no need for part C, but it does eventually drive a need for some magnesium (and strontium, if you consider that important). So base the part C on the actual dose of the two part, and ignore kalkwasser for that calculation.

 

[Doctorgori]

Any of the demand that you use limewater (kalkwasser) for, reduces the need for part C. Kalkwasser has no need for part C, but it does eventually drive a need for some magnesium (and strontium, if you consider that important). So base the part C on the actual dose of the two part, and ignore kalkwasser for that calculation.

Thanks again Randy,
This may again sound blatantly obvious but would‘nt it also reduce the demand for parts a A & B such that all the salinity malarkey is at least offset by a decent amount, heck for many tanks that could be significant.
I guess I’m wondering why we don’t always use kalkwasser 1st before going through all the assorted salinity adjustments and worry

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, it reduces the need for A and B which is why you need less C.

 

[Doctorgori]

I would think that in theory, this might decrease the ionic imbalance by some amount. I, personally, am not a fan of the ph shift from larger kalkwasser dosing. But that is my personal preference and probably prompts an entirely other thread!

Thanks again Randy,
This may again sound blatantly obvious but would‘nt it also reduce the demand for parts a A & B such that all the salinity malarkey is at least offset by a decent amount, heck for many tanks that could be significant.
I guess I’m wondering why we don’t always use kalkwasser 1st before going through all the assorted salinity adjustments and worry

Pardon, I missed your post, but yeah another discussion/theory entirely was highlighted by the BRS investigates thing on higher pH/coral growth, the vid intrigued me. Whats your concern with higher pH’s; say around 8.7- 9ish?

Part-C? Admittedly I might be overly skeptically given all the “science to fit sales“ as you see everywhere nowadays. But to you chemist and advanced hobbyist, I’m wondering why I would ever take my Kalkwasser offline, regardless of any other reason or tank demand.

Anyway, nice having all this gray matter in one thread...appreciate the replies and knowledge...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Pardon, I missed your post, but yeah another discussion/theory entirely was highlighted by the BRS investigates thing on higher pH/coral growth, the vid intrigued me. Whats your concern with higher pH’s; say around 8.7- 9ish?

Did they really suggest pH up to 9? Or is that your interpretation of "higher" pH? Usually, higher pH means like 8.4 or 8.5. It's very hard to maintain any reef aquarium above pH 8.6. It means very poor aeration if you can.

Aside from potential effects on organisms, the serious problem with pH that high is rapid precipitation of calcium carbonate. Compared to normal seawater at an alk of 7 dKH and pH of 8.1, the same likelihood of precipitation happens by boosting the pH to 9.0, or boosting the alkalinity to more than 50 dKH.

 

[Doctorgori]

Did they really suggest pH up to 9? Or is that your interpretation of "higher" pH? Usually, higher pH means like 8.4 or 8.5. It's very hard to maintain any reef aquarium above pH 8.6. It means very poor aeration if you can.

Aside from potential effects on organisms, the serious problem with pH that high is rapid precipitation of calcium carbonate. Compared to normal seawater at an alk of 7 dKH and pH of 8.1, the same likelihood of precipitation happens by boosting the pH to 9.0, or boosting the alkalinity to more than 50 dKH.

I’d have to lie to verify that, or actually go back and look at that vid, But yeah, I thought 9.0 was tossed out somewhere.
Anyway, they did a whole investigates thing on higher pH and coral growth. Although I wasn’t gonna run out and spend $ on CO2 scrubber gear; I dang sure ain’t taking my kalk offline now if elevated pH has real measurable benefit and the risk is low.
I dunno, then again I haven’t come across any chemist or biologist weighing in on the topic either.

 

[User1]

I’d have to lie to verify that, or actually go back and look at that vid, But yeah, I thought 9.0 was tossed out somewhere.
Anyway, they did a whole investigates thing on higher pH and coral growth. Although I wasn’t gonna run out and spend $ on CO2 scrubber gear; I dang sure ain’t taking my kalk offline now if elevated pH has real measurable benefit and the risk is low.
I dunno, then again I haven’t come across any chemist or biologist weighing in on the topic either.

This one? I think they are referencing tests they ran between 7.8 - 8.4. I don't recall it going to 9.

 

[Doctorgori]

This one? I think they are referencing tests they ran between 7.8 - 8.4. I don't recall it going to 9.

I saw that one also. I cudda swore the one guy, I wanna say Ryan said he ran his tank at 9.0.
Again I dunno who is who around here and I don’t wanna put words in anyone’s mouth but I will lie if I’m wrong
5th edit: BTW, I’m no biologist but whats a “Safe” elevated range anyway?

 

[Doctorgori]

Oh and to the above, please accept the sincere disclaimer that I could be wrong. One should always reference such things, esp with names.
But yeah I’m looking now to find it

 

[Doctorgori]

Maybe I have seen too many BRS vids, I’m hoping it had to be alkalinity I heard ...I’d rather be wrong than stupid or misquote
BIG Thanks Randy and Tropic Marin and everyone

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I saw that one also. I cudda swore the one guy, I wanna say Ryan said he ran his tank at 9.0.
Again I dunno who is who around here and I don’t wanna put words in anyone’s mouth but I will lie if I’m wrong
5th edit: BTW, I’m no biologist but whats a “Safe” elevated range anyway?

I don't believe it is possible to run a reef tank at pH 9.0. You just cannot maintain such a high pH in aerated tank water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here is my most recent pH article, which includes a discussion of high p and when to do something to lower it.

It is fine to run up to a daily peak around pH 8.55 (I have for years at a time). Higher than that and somewhere, precipitation skyrockets as noted when folks overdose limewater, which itself drops the pH way down again.

pH And The Reef Aquarium
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/

 

[Doctorgori]

Apologies for derailing my own thread, and waisting pHD time....I’d bet BRS was talking alk not pH, my bad...

Here is my most recent pH article, which includes a discussion of high p and when to do something to lower it.

It is fine to run up to a daily peak around pH 8.55 (I have for years at a time). Higher than that and somewhere, precipitation skyrockets as noted when folks overdose limewater, which itself drops the pH way down again.

pH And The Reef Aquarium
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/

appreciate the clarity, thanks Randy
I gotta admit that pH vid is intriguing ... Seems the safe bet is elevated pH via photosynthesis (or CO2 uptake) vs chemical magic and dealing with salinity, precipitation et.
Appreciate everyone’s time it took to contribute

 

[rusgum]

Apologies for derailing my own thread, and waisting pHD time....I’d bet BRS was talking alk not pH, my bad...


appreciate the clarity, thanks Randy
I gotta admit that pH vid is intriguing ... Seems the safe bet is elevated pH via photosynthesis (or CO2 uptake) vs chemical magic and dealing with salinity, precipitation et.
Appreciate everyone’s time it took to contribute

Strong is the one who is not afraid to admit his mistakes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I gotta admit that pH vid is intriguing ... Seems the safe bet is elevated pH via photosynthesis (or CO2 uptake) vs chemical magic and dealing with salinity, precipitation et.

The resulting pH and consequent overall aquarium properties is no different based on how you get there. High pH from photosynthesis will have the same precipitation issues, except perhaps for local effects when you are fist mixing in chemicals.

 

[Doctorgori]

The resulting pH and consequent overall aquarium properties is no different based on how you get there. High pH from photosynthesis will have the same precipitation issues, except perhaps for local effects when you are fist mixing in chemicals.

appreciated Randy,
Understood: “safe bet” meant in terms of salinity issues and self inflicted chemistry mishaps. Algae; you can at least threaten & control

Strong is the one who is not afraid to admit his mistakes.

Heck, naw....back to back vids; 9.0 just stuck...it was just too late to delete the original msg. I know better: numbers require references, otherwise you spread misquotes/misinformation.

Anyway, thanks to those educational vids posted by BRS and the entry level article written by educated hobbyist like Randy, I’m re-prioritizing pH now.

 

[Adamantium]

No, You have to dose Mg separately. The Trace elements and Mg, in the Part C only serve to balance the excess NaCl from the Parts A and B. The Part C is NOT a Mg and Trace element supplement. Trace elements and Mg still get dosed separately.

Hey Mr. Ekus! Sorry to dredge up an old thread. I received the Part C as a gift from BRS (thanks BRS!) but have no idea if I even have a use for it. I dose TLF C-Balance, which is a 2-part that contains magnesium. Is there any reason to use the part C? Please forgive my ignorance, but I’m not fully understanding its use.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Mr. Ekus! Sorry to dredge up an old thread. I received the Part C as a gift from BRS (thanks BRS!) but have no idea if I even have a use for it. I dose TLF C-Balance, which is a 2-part that contains magnesium. Is there any reason to use the part C? Please forgive my ignorance, but I’m not fully understanding its use.

There is not, no. It would be undesirable to use it as it largely duplicates what is in the C-balance, and using it will serve to lower calcium and alkalinity a bit.

 

[Adamantium]

There is not, no. It would be undesirable to use it as it largely duplicates what is in the C-balance, and using it will serve to lower calcium and alkalinity a bit.

Thank you very much, Mr. Holmes-Farley. Now I just need to figure out what to do with it...

Maybe I’ll start the balling method after I run out of C-Balance. It just seems a little complex.