Cloudy Water, Firefish Goby dead, Snail dead, All Fish swimming on top of tank

[brandon429]

Yes especially if it was snails that died, they'll go undetected a while usually and begin the tipping point. Ammonia events are fast, obvious and within a few hours total consequence.

This is the primary diagnostic we use in our cycling thread to discern no ammonia when one or more testers says there's some and it's been present three weeks straight (with all fish acting fine) always at some fractional level like .25 or .5

Conversely, we see primary bac blooms from errant carbon dosing all the time/ not a tank wiper
you werent using carbon, so a source for a bac bloom to take initial o2 is lacking.

Ammonia is the tank wiper. hard to guess what the cause was im just brainstorming a bac bloom isnt usually as deadly and fast.

 

[Dom]

I have no access to RODI water around here and use distilled water. I have been using it for 8 months now with no issues (maybe a bad batch of water)?

Distilled water is perfectly acceptable.

REALLY agitate that water... get that O2 level up!!

 

[MnFish1]

Update:

-Just lost a chromis. He was "gasping" for air 45 minutes ago and now he's on the bottom dead.
-I have been cycling the water with a cup.
-Called in a friend who lives down the road who used to work at an aquarium store, she's assisting in checking.
-Did a quick test of water with API kit: pH: 7.8 (increased from 7.5 after dKH buffer added), dKH is 10, Nitrite/Nitrate is 0 ppm. Ammonia is a little under 1ppm.
-Skimmer is back on. I did a few hand pumps of the canister and noted some air pockets that were cycled (helped oxiginate the water a bit). The bengai cardinal is no longer "gasping" for air but my last chromis is still at it.
-Tank is 45gal, live sand and live rock. Tank looks terrible compared to yesterday. Will work on pics shortly

what is the size of your tank - it may have been the dead fish caused a spike (or ammonia) - or the bacterial bloom itself - the question is which came first - the death or the bacterial bloom. If it was a disease that killed the fish, for example - which caused the bacterial bloom - all of the oxygen in the world won't 'fix' the problem.... What could have caused a bacterial bloom overnight? overfeeding? Something else dying? Doing smoothing with your filter, etc etc etc

 

[MnFish1]

can rot occur so quickly? all livestock was well prior to the end of the night.

Yes - bacteria can double every 15 minutes. and then each new one will double thus:

"Contained within each bacterium is the genetic information that the bacteria needs to produce a new, replicated bacterium. This allows bacteria to multiply exponentially. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, bacterium can double within 20 to 30 minutes, meaning that one bacterium turns into two, then two become four, leading eventually to the formation of millions of cells in a few hours."

IE a bacterial bloom can occur over hours - and rapidly deplete oxygen - cause ammonia to spike

 

[Malifry97]

Add some Seachem Prime to detoxify anything like ammonia or nitrite or nitrate just to be safe

 

[Dom]

In no way did your reef suffer an oxygen deficit. This wasn't o2 related at all and the bac bloom wasn't a lethal initiative it was after the fact. You had a loss of a fish most likely and or snails first, then their rot overcame, creating a loss cascade. Removal of ammonia is all that's required, the water level impacts aren't helping nor hurting.

Being ammonia burnt means gills don't function in fish, you didn't have systemic oxygen issues no reef does. That's a freshwater bog, peat, acidic condition.

Ammonia burns gills, gills are where fish excrete ammonia, they display oxygen weakness due to ammonia. Agreed subsequent bloom uses further, so removing it is ideal vs mixing it around in any way or dosing to offset. The sole saving act is any degree of water change up to 100%

I definitely thought this was a lack of O2, particularly because of the difficulty in keeping pH up. I didn't consider ammonia as the culprit.

So if I am understanding what you are saying, something died and went undetected. Decomposition lead to ammonia, and the nitrifying bacteria colony couldn't handle the additional demand.

And while the nitrifying bacteria colony will grow in response to the ammonia, it can't grow fast enough to keep up, so, ammonia levels continued to rise, causing gill burn.

This led to the gasping exhibited and additional deaths which, in turn, lead to continued elevation of ammonia and more deaths.

A vicious cycle indeed!

 

[Dom]

Yes - bacteria can double every 15 minutes. and then each new one will double thus:

"Contained within each bacterium is the genetic information that the bacteria needs to produce a new, replicated bacterium. This allows bacteria to multiply exponentially. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, bacterium can double within 20 to 30 minutes, meaning that one bacterium turns into two, then two become four, leading eventually to the formation of millions of cells in a few hours."

IE a bacterial bloom can occur over hours - and rapidly deplete oxygen - cause ammonia to spike

So it was a combination of reduced O2 leading to elevated ammonia?

Does your quote form the FDA take into consideration that we are speaking about a water environment?

 

[MnFish1]

So it was a combination of reduced O2 leading to elevated ammonia?

Does your quote form the FDA take into consideration that we are speaking about a water environment?

Bacteria are bacteria - depending on the type of bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria are much slower - others are quite rapid - its a matter of food (tissue or a chemical in the water) and time. As long as the chemical is still present (ie, whatever is feeding the bacteria) - the bloom will continue - and can rapidly decrease O2. Decreased O2 also leads to more 'death' - which in addition to whatever caused the problem in the first place causes high ammonia, etc etc etc. Its not there is no oxygen in the water - its that is being consumed as quickly as the bacteria multiply.

PS - again - like I said originally (I think. - and like @brandon429 said) - 1. find out what caused the first problem/death/overfeeding/ etc that provided a 'food' for the bacteria and 2. Detoxify the ammonia - and 3 provide oxygen (2 and 3 simultaneously)

 

[moz71]

Well I had fish die in my tank Last one was a sizable blue tang that disappeared in the rocks. And never had any ammonia issues. Or bloom Plus I don’t think decomposing would occur that quick to cause a spike to kill fish. Just my opinion. The bacterium bloom would continue even with large water changes so the green machine would stop it

 

[MnFish1]

Well I had fish die in my tank Last one was a sizable blue tang that disappeared in the rocks. And never had any ammonia issues. Or bloom Plus I don’t think decomposing would occur that quick to cause a spike to kill fish. Just my opinion. The bacterium bloom would continue even with large water changes so the green machine would stop it

I am not sure what caused the 'nutrients' in the water that allowed the bacterial bloom (thats why I said - it needs to be investigated) - but once started - it becomes a vicious cycle. Also depends on how much 'death' there was - how long it took to remove the fish - and how big the tank is. What is 'sizable'?

 

[brandon429]

How is this tank currently
Your thread is an important focus in our cycling thread to see the sting of free ammonia and relate it to environmental conditions we can plainly see

Did it clear up, and stop the loss