Clown fish with a hurt nose :)

[DiefsReef]

Hey folks, wanted to toss this out and see what people think we have going on here.
We have 4 clowns in QT since Feb 27th.

1 fish came with what looks to me like some damage in his nose but it has gotten much worse in the last few days.
He and the other larger clown have been fighting at night and I have seen them face to face fighting.
We don't know if this is from fighting or someone mentioned hole in the head.
Was suggested to tag @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081
We performed a 30% water change last night and have tried feeding food with vitamins but he still does not seem to eat much if anything. Looks like he tries and pulls a small piece or two but nothing more. Just sits in same place most of the time last 2 days.

Best pic I can get of him

 

[DiefsReef]

O h and I put the more dominant fish in an acclimation box in the qt tank so there can be no more aggression.

 

[vetteguy53081]

O h and I put the more dominant fish in an acclimation box in the qt tank so there can be no more aggression.

Perfect. I was going to suggest separating them for now allowing clown to heal. I can safely state that one great thing about saltwater fish is their ability to heal and heal naturally on their own. If you want to help the healing, melafix works but not necessary (at least at this time)

 

[DiefsReef]

Perfect. I was going to suggest separating them for now allowing clown to heal. I can safely state that one great thing about saltwater fish is their ability to heal and heal naturally on their own. If you want to help the healing, melafix works but not necessary (at least at this time)

Awesome thank you @vetteguy53081 so you think its aggression and not Hole in the Head?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Awesome thank you @vetteguy53081 so you think its aggression and not Hole in the Head?

Looks like post fighting or pairing off which they can get crazy. Fish can also get startled and crash into objects in which very few are smooth in a reef tank. Keep an eye on it for improvement now that it is isolated

 

[Jay Hemdal]

O h and I put the more dominant fish in an acclimation box in the qt tank so there can be no more aggression.

That should help. Clownfish rarely if ever get HLLE (hole in the head). This is almost assuredly from locking jaws with the other one. There is always the question - who to isolate, the loser or the winner? In this case, isolating the winner is best, it allows the loser to gain strength and set up its territory better. If multiple fish were picking on it, you'd need to move the loser of course.

jay

 

[Teen reefer]

Yeah you should but him in a separate container or a quarantine tank for the other tank mates won’t bother him and he can heal up.

 

[DiefsReef]

Looks like post fighting or pairing off which they can get crazy. Fish can also get startled and crash into objects in which very few are smooth in a reef tank. Keep an eye on it for improvement now that it is isolated

Thx @vetteguy53081
I ran to the store and bought some malafix to help him along.
The hurt fish seemed to be the aggressive one in the bunch at first but the larger clown had worms when we got them. I think now that we took care of that issue he is much more the aggressor and I agree I think these two where bonding so lots of squabbles going on.

That should help. Clownfish rarely if ever get HLLE (hole in the head). This is almost assuredly from locking jaws with the other one. There is always the question - who to isolate, the loser or the winner? In this case, isolating the winner is best, it allows the loser to gain strength and set up its territory better. If multiple fish were picking on it, you'd need to move the loser of course.

jay

Thx @Jay Hemdal That was my thought, the one I put in isolation was really pushing all the other 3 around so I put him in time out

Out of the other 3, the hurt fish is the largest and the other 2 are just kinda hanging around him. No aggression at all so I think I did the right thing here.

Thx for the help guys!!

 

[DiefsReef]

Yeah you should but him in a separate container or a quarantine tank for the other tank mates won’t bother him and he can heal up.

Thx for responding @Teen reefer
I put the bully in time out so thing we are good now

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thx @vetteguy53081
I ran to the store and bought some malafix to help him along.
The hurt fish seemed to be the aggressive one in the bunch at first but the larger clown had worms when we got them. I think now that we took care of that issue he is much more the aggressor and I agree I think these two where bonding so lots of squabbles going on.


Thx @Jay Hemdal That was my thought, the one I put in isolation was really pushing all the other 3 around so I put him in time out

Out of the other 3, the hurt fish is the largest and the other 2 are just kinda hanging around him. No aggression at all so I think I did the right thing here.

Thx for the help guys!!

Likely the larger is the female as in the clownfish world, size does matter. But, it's not what you think. For clownfish, the females are larger than the males. So if you have a large clownfish or a clownfish that has been alone for a long period of time, chances are that it is a female.
Female clownfish are much more dominant than their male counterparts. They greedily try to eat most of the food that gets into the tank (which is one reason the males don't grow as large). They will often aggressively protect their "home", whether that be an anenome, a nesting site, a clay pot or the entire fish tank. If it attacks your hand when you're trying to clean the glass or it won't let any other fish near its spot, you most likely have a female clownfish.

 

[DiefsReef]

Likely the larger is the female as in the clownfish world, size does matter. But, it's not what you think. For clownfish, the females are larger than the males. So if you have a large clownfish or a clownfish that has been alone for a long period of time, chances are that it is a female.
Female clownfish are much more dominant than their male counterparts. They greedily try to eat most of the food that gets into the tank (which is one reason the males don't grow as large). They will often aggressively protect their "home", whether that be an anenome, a nesting site, a clay pot or the entire fish tank. If it attacks your hand when you're trying to clean the glass or it won't let any other fish near its spot, you most likely have a female clownfish.

I have 2 tanks I'm setting up and the two clowns that are fighting where the ones going in a tank together. Can there be 2 females at the start? If they are both female will one turn eventually or will they just keep fighting?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have 2 tanks I'm setting up and the two clowns that are fighting where the ones going in a tank together. Can there be 2 females at the start? If they are both female will one turn eventually or will they just keep fighting?

It is possible as in the case with most occileris, clownfish are born gender neutral. They are not male nor female at birth and as juveniles. The other thing that makes sexing Ocellaris Clownfish difficult is that they can become male and then female. This means that a juvenile clownfish can turn into a male, and the same clownfish can later change sexes to become a female. Once they become female they cannot change back to male.
This is how the social hierarchy works for clownfish: There is one dominant female clownfish, partnered with a male, who is the next most dominant fish. The female is larger (often much larger) than the male. Next are non-mating males and juveniles. They are usually smaller still than the dominant male. If the male mate were to die, the next dominant male would become the mate (if the female accepts him). If the female were to die, then the dominant male would change to female and the next male in line would become the mate.

 

[DiefsReef]

It is possible as in the case with most occileris, clownfish are born gender neutral. They are not male nor female at birth and as juveniles. The other thing that makes sexing Ocellaris Clownfish difficult is that they can become male and then female. This means that a juvenile clownfish can turn into a male, and the same clownfish can later change sexes to become a female. Once they become female they cannot change back to male.
This is how the social hierarchy works for clownfish: There is one dominant female clownfish, partnered with a male, who is the next most dominant fish. The female is larger (often much larger) than the male. Next are non-mating males and juveniles. They are usually smaller still than the dominant male. If the male mate were to die, the next dominant male would become the mate (if the female accepts him). If the female were to die, then the dominant male would change to female and the next male in line would become the mate.

Great thx for all the info @vetteguy53081 !!

 

[DiefsReef]

How long do I have to keep the aggressor in time out? ;Joyful I feel so bad for him/her being in the acclamation tank for over a week now. I'm moving him and the one he was fighting with to their forever home in a week. just keep them separated or can I put him back in general population? The hurt fish is back to normal now and eating like a fiend again.

 

[DiefsReef]

@vetteguy53081 think its safe to put them all back together or wait till I put those two in the DT in a week?

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081 think its safe to put them all back together or wait till I put those two in the DT in a week?

I'd wait

 

[DiefsReef]

I'd wait

Awesome thx!