Clownfish died trying to understand so it won’t happen again

[famusreef99]

Hi everyone.

First saltwater tank. Tank has been cycled for about a month or so. I added 2 designer clownfish last Tuesday. Last night noticed one on its side at the bottom of the tank breathing heavily. Other one is fine and shrimp seem fine. They have been eating too.

I read about a freshwater dip. Did that for about 5 minutes or so and put him back. He started to attempt to swim but couldn’t really do it for long. And just stayed at the bottom of the acclimation box.

Woke up this morning he wasn’t breathing so I took him out. Not sure what happened. I didn’t notice any white spots or anything “fall” off during the fresh water dip.

I did not do any QT as I figured if anything happened I’d let the tank go 76 days before adding anything else.

Water params
Ammonia 0
Nitrates ~20ppm
Salinity 1.026
Temp ~77

 

[Suohhen]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[StarksReef]

Sad to hear that your first fish died. How did you acclimate them and ow did you cycle your tank (dry or live rock)? Is that sand in there since you started cycling? Cause it looks very white, would expect to see it brown somewhat during the cycle.

 

[brandon429]

Tank Nuked! All Fish Dead

Hello. I came back from a 2 day leave and all my fish were randomly dead except for my one chromi. All my corals are opened and reacting normally. I did not notice any signs of disease nor were the fish acting any differently when I last saw them. I am very confused and do not know what could...

www.reef2reef.com

rule out your cycle issues, there are no cycles that take longer than one month. the bottle bac you used had your cycle ready in five days or less in fact, even if your tester said it took fifteen

that post above is for you to check out the flow and attribute what you will. as usual nobody agrees with me lol but watch for tiny clues repeating in there, such as nobody bothering to check the disease history of the tank.

Your tank is so new, you have a much much easier startover this time/easy to make it fallow then input the correctly prepped fish.

based on key words you mentioned here I bet round two will go much better for your new reef.

*fish arent immune to losses caused by unpreventable maladies, genetic or epigenetic issues, Im not thinking 100% of all fish deaths were preventable.


Im thinking that in the scope of no preps, we can expect the preventable maladies to mix right in the with the unpreventable ones at a much higher rate. pertinent facts there were: read about disease preps before Feb, know about quarantine, had disease in Feb, held course anyway, bucket of dead fish in June. I know that sounds mean but its an exact flow of the thread.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hard to access a fish once dead unless a biopsy is done.
Many possibilities:
- internal parasite
- Brooklynella
- low oxygen
- aggression
- gill l flukes

the list goes on.

 

[famusreef99]

The other clown fish is doing fine and so are the inverts.

Everything was drip acclimated to match salinity.

I have the return pumps right at breaking the surface and sometimes see bubbles so I assume the tank is getting oxygen.

I used live Fiji pink sand
Caribe life rock
Turbo fritz 900

dr tims ammonia dose 2ppm
Dropped after day to 0

After a week started the protein skimmer and it’s been running and collecting.


API test kit sucks IMO

 

[famusreef99]

I guess the question is should I wait longer or replace the clown sooner? If everything else seems good?

 

[Suohhen]

I guess the question is should I wait longer or replace the clown sooner? If everything else seems good?

Well you said yourself that the plan was to skip qt and go fallow if needed. This is one of those things that can't be generalized. If you dump another fish in you are firmly on the disease management side and if you go fallow you are firmly on the disease prevention side. Personally I would set up a qt and move remaining clown as simply adding qt to the process is a great step but it is totally up to you.

 

[brandon429]

that was a mighty solid cycle logged above. nice one. Fritz is darn powerful.

 

[Azedenkae]

The other clown fish is doing fine and so are the inverts.

Everything was drip acclimated to match salinity.

I have the return pumps right at breaking the surface and sometimes see bubbles so I assume the tank is getting oxygen.

I used live Fiji pink sand
Caribe life rock
Turbo fritz 900

dr tims ammonia dose 2ppm
Dropped after day to 0

After a week started the protein skimmer and it’s been running and collecting.


API test kit sucks IMO

I doubt it has anything to do with your parameters, otherwise your other clown is probably a goner as well. Could be something as simple as a bad quality fish to begin with. I had clownfish I got from one vendor looking terrible and died, and then clownfish from another that had zero problems from the start, for example. You may just have been unlucky and had a clown that was already diseased or weak for some reason.

I'd suggest keeping an eye on the other clown for like a week, if there is no issues at all you can see - it is eating well, etc., then add another clown.

 

[famusreef99]

Yes sorry I meant if everything is good with the other clown and inverts is waiting another week or two will suffice?

I planned on getting a QT setup this weekend so that's a good idea tho.

 

[famusreef99]

I doubt it has anything to do with your parameters, otherwise your other clown is probably a goner as well. Could be something as simple as a bad quality fish to begin with. I had clownfish I got from one vendor looking terrible and died, and then clownfish from another that had zero problems from the start, for example. You may just have been unlucky and had a clown that was already diseased or weak for some reason.

I'd suggest keeping an eye on the other clown for like a week, if there is no issues at all you can see - it is eating well, etc., then add another clown.

Both are from the same LFS and same tank but yeah I will keep this in mind.

Thanks!

 

[Azedenkae]

Both are from the same LFS and same tank but yeah I will keep this in mind.

Thanks!

Like I said could be a bad quality individual specifically. The example I gave was just to say different clowns could do very differently despite the exact same parameters.

 

[famusreef99]

that was a mighty solid cycle logged above. nice one. Fritz is darn powerful.

yeah I followed/read most of your posts. Thank you for that.

 

[brandon429]

you can see I dont even keep fish, many find that offensive when I relay fish details/patterns etc - no stake in the game



but

we do turn out cycled tanks by the thousands and to not relay what the fish disease forum says about disease preps seems the ultimate rip off. All these keepers concern over ammonia and cycling, but that's not what kills fish in eight months after setup. I can't think of a more hot button topic than qt yes, qt no, the conflict is driven by the total absence of any other prevention or prep methods in the disease forum, but outside the disease forum its the last method ever recommended.


scroll for pages of examples in the disease forum, its mostly new tanks within 8 mos recovering from losses. The stickies from that forum weren't posted to ire non-quarantiners, they're stickies because they work better than what non quarantiners write.

that creates a gradient for change in the hobby, I directly exploit those gradients for something to do daily.


and because I think its the best science gap worth analyzing...now that we can turn out fish-ready reefs without even testing for a single param, and 100% follow suit, what's the real killer to watch out for?

post patterns show us we are never going to get away with both quick cycling and skipping all known current preps that are used in the fish disease forum by a zookeeper. even if we slow cycle or use pre cultured rock, fish disease is still a daily event for new tanks we see in the fish disease forum.

 

[famusreef99]

So I found the other clown today being eaten by a hermit crab. Last night he seemed fine just hanging out on the bottom of the tank area nothing abnormal compared to the other clown. Breathing seemed fine.

the blood shrimp molted overnight so I’m guessing water params are still good. Skunk cleaner shrimp molted last week.

I guess I will let the tank fallow for 76 days to rule anything out.

 

[Deep]

So I found the other clown today being eaten by a hermit crab. Last night he seemed fine just hanging out on the bottom of the tank area nothing abnormal compared to the other clown. Breathing seemed fine.

the blood shrimp molted overnight so I’m guessing water params are still good. Skunk cleaner shrimp molted last week.

I guess I will let the tank fallow for 76 days to rule anything out.

the LFS sold you diseased fish as is usual. Dont beat yourself up over it. Most LFS or in the trade seem to thrive on fish dying in hobbyist tanks so they make more money when you keep buying again.

 

[BiggestE222]

Not sure you can blame the store. There are many reasons those animals died. Starting over might be the best option. This is not an easy hobby. There is a huge learning curve involved.

 

[brandon429]

A nano with clownfish sometimes gets a pass on disease preps, we can see eighty live examples on nano-reef.com at any time

I'm not sure if this unlucky couple fish here brought in something systemic that will affect another couple clowns as they may be tougher etc, hard to say. The main challenge comes about when mixing fish species as that combo is showing high incidence of losses

Truly two more test clowns wouldn't be hideous here without preps if the main goal was two clowns only, but if more fish are wanted or if another test clown dies quickly the fallow preps and qt seem best option. I know fallow isn't fun that's a long boring wait

 

[LIreefguy]

When a fish dies that quickly and you ruled out water parameters. I would say it came in sick

I would probably wait a month and if the other clownfish gets sick before adding another one

I had my first clownfish die after 3 weeks and no other fish died. Added another clown fish and 6 years later they are breeding every 2 weeks and biting my hand every time I put it in the tank

if your lucky you hand too will have tiny bites all over