Clownfish With Ice blue holes in her head?

[MattR]

It has not been my week in this hobby, another question for all you. I have this large female black snowflake who I recently moved to a different tank with her pair. I noticed today that she had these corralline colored colored divets in her head, they definitely aren't just on the surface (or so I think). I turned on just the whites to exam they are ice blue in color from what the photos show. I do not recall seeing them on her in the other tank yet I was never really inspecting her like I do in this tank. She is the only fish in this tank besides her pair. They have been paired for almost 8 months with no issues. Does anyone have an idea? Is it just old age? Should I treat?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have to go on zoom with florida boys.... appears to be hole in head

@Jay Hemdal

 

[MattR]

I have to go on zoom with florida boys.... appears to be hole in head

@Jay Hemdal

Thank you for your response. Ill look into treatments. @Humblefish any idea? with the ice blue color?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you for your response. Ill look into treatments. @Humblefish any idea? with the ice blue color?

Humblefish not on the site but I have Jay alerted. Hole-In-The-Head Disease is found in freshwater and saltwater fish and is named for the erosive lesions that form along the head and lateral line.
As the name states, Hole-In-The-Head Disease causes pitting and erosions along the head and/or along the lateral line. The spots may be slightly depressed and brown to grey to white in coloration. Mild cases may only have a few spots, whereas serious infections may start to erode large patches of the face and sides. Erosions usually start as pinhole size defects and spread outwards. They can start as multiple spots at once or one focal lesion.
Many stressors, such as poor water quality or diet, can start the chain of events that lead to Hole-In-The-Head Disease.


Other possible causes or influences on the progression of Hole-In-The-Head Disease include:

• use of activated carbon
• Stressors including poor water quality or aggression from tankmate
• nutrition deficiency
• stray voltage

There's really no treatment for this but you can assure Good water quality, good diet ( add selcon vitamins and garlic extract to foods), remove all carbon from your system temporarily and make sure all of your filters/pumps are properly hooked up and not discharging extra voltage.

 

[MattR]

Humblefish not on the site but I have Jay alerted. Hole-In-The-Head Disease is found in freshwater and saltwater fish and is named for the erosive lesions that form along the head and lateral line.
As the name states, Hole-In-The-Head Disease causes pitting and erosions along the head and/or along the lateral line. The spots may be slightly depressed and brown to grey to white in coloration. Mild cases may only have a few spots, whereas serious infections may start to erode large patches of the face and sides. Erosions usually start as pinhole size defects and spread outwards. They can start as multiple spots at once or one focal lesion.
Many stressors, such as poor water quality or diet, can start the chain of events that lead to Hole-In-The-Head Disease.


Other possible causes or influences on the progression of Hole-In-The-Head Disease include:

• use of activated carbon
• Stressors including poor water quality or aggression from tankmate
• nutrition deficiency
• stray voltage

There's really no treatment for this but you can assure Good water quality, good diet ( add selcon vitamins and garlic extract to foods), remove all carbon from your system temporarily and make sure all of your filters/pumps are properly hooked up and not discharging extra voltage.

Thank you very much, I just removed my carbon, I highly doubt its nutrition as all I feed them is TDO, PE frozen mysis, PE pellets, fertility frenzy, sometimes soaked in growth hack, I do weekly waterchanges with RODI, I just don't know how to test for stray voltage effectively and affordably,

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you very much, I just removed my carbon, I highly doubt its nutrition as all I feed them is TDO, PE frozen mysis, PE pellets, fertility frenzy, sometimes soaked in growth hack, I do weekly waterchanges with RODI, I just don't know how to test for stray voltage effectively and affordably,

Add some frozen:
Spirulina brine shrimp
LRS Fish Frenzy
Mysis shrimp
Formula 1 frozen

 

[MattR]

Add some frozen:
Spirulina brine shrimp
LRS Fish Frenzy
Mysis shrimp
Formula 1 frozen

Thanks, Already feed LRS Nano fish frenzy, PE mysis, and fertility frenzy I did not know that wasn't enough geez haha

 

[PhoenixReef91]

The head does look indented slightly in the picture, but I believe that the blue color is pretty common on designer clowns. Mine has that blue all around the edges of the white on her body. Maybe as your clown has grown the blue has become more Pronounced?

 

[Tcook]

I just don't know how to test for stray voltage effectively and affordably,

You don't need to. Just add a grounding probe. The blue color may just be due to Tyndall effect of melanin in deeper tissue. Not sure if the black pigmented areas runs deep under the white.

 

[MattR]

The head does look indented slightly in the picture, but I believe that the blue color is pretty common on designer clowns. Mine has that blue all around the edges of the white on her body. Maybe as your clown has grown the blue has become more Pronounced?

I thought that originally bu

t here are more pictures, I wouldn't be worried but the blue/purple are divers not surface like its bullet holes on the side of him.

 

[MattR]

You don't need to. Just add a grounding probe. The blue color may just be due to Tyndall effect of melanin in deeper tissue. Not sure if the black pigmented areas runs deep under the white.

Ill look more into that and do more research on adding a grounding probe (any good links for set up?) also youre saying the pigment may give the look of the effect of "pitting"?

 

[Tcook]

These are cheap off Amazon and is what I use for several tanks: Amazon.com : Encompass All Volt-Control - Submersible Titanium Grounding Probe with Suction Mount (Single Pack) : Pet Supplies

Black pigment appears blue the deeper it is in the skin (Tyndall effect).

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes, that could be HLLE, but clownfish rarely get that, and in this case, the lesions are spread across the body more than I would expect. There are also going to be spots in the black portion of the fish, but you just can't seem them due to the color. As mentioned, the blue is from bleed-through of the white coloration and melanin, so that by itself isn't an issue.
Stray electrical current has never been proven to cause HLLE, and in fact, an informal study that I did about 15 years ago showed absolutely no correlation. It is a "red herring" so you don't need to chase that down.

Ultimately, the way to determine what this is is to be able to answer the question of how long has the fish had these lesions? My understanding is that you noticed them after moving the fish, so it may have had the lesions for a longer period. If the lesions grew slowly, over months, then it could be HLLE. If they developed suddenly, or a week or two, then I would be more include to think it is a bacterial lesion.

Either way, this looks chronic to me, so there is no treatment coming to mind.

Jay

 

[MattR]

Good to know, thank you I will purchase some! Is it as simple as plugging them into my wall outlet or extension cord? Any forum I could read up on about using these?

These are cheap off Amazon and is what I use for several tanks: Amazon.com : Encompass All Volt-Control - Submersible Titanium Grounding Probe with Suction Mount (Single Pack) : Pet Supplies

Black pigment appears blue the deeper it is in the skin (Tyndall effect).

 

[MattR]

Yes, that could be HLLE, but clownfish rarely get that, and in this case, the lesions are spread across the body more than I would expect. There are also going to be spots in the black portion of the fish, but you just can't seem them due to the color. As mentioned, the blue is from bleed-through of the white coloration and melanin, so that by itself isn't an issue.
Stray electrical current has never been proven to cause HLLE, and in fact, an informal study that I did about 15 years ago showed absolutely no correlation. It is a "red herring" so you don't need to chase that down.

Ultimately, the way to determine what this is is to be able to answer the question of how long has the fish had these lesions? My understanding is that you noticed them after moving the fish, so it may have had the lesions for a longer period. If the lesions grew slowly, over months, then it could be HLLE. If they developed suddenly, or a week or two, then I would be more include to think it is a bacterial lesion.

Either way, this looks chronic to me, so there is now treatment coming to mind.

Jay

Thank you very much for this explanation jay, so as long as they are eating, swimming normal, etc theres really nothing I can do and nothing to worry about? Just to keep them fed well?

 

[LegendaryCG]

Good to know, thank you I will purchase some! Is it as simple as plugging them into my wall outlet or extension cord? Any forum I could read up on about using these?

Yes connect it to a 3 pronged outlet, or off a power bar that is using a 3 pronged outlet.

 

[MattR]

Getting Concerned as today I went to feed her (garlic with PE mysis)
and she did not go for it at all. Anyone? Separate and treat the tank with metroplex? Really do not want to lose her......

 

[MattR]

Now white string coming from her gills???? HELP

 

[MattR]

Just fell off. Will do a FW dip and treat with metro. Hope this is a good call because I am getting no responses

 

[MattR]

Just did a FW dip and now notice white spots all over her. Only dipped for 1 min maybe should have done longer as it was kicking what ever was on her off? Still need help guys......