Comparison: Fauna Marine ICP Analysis vs. ATI-OES ICP Analysis

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SMSREEF

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@Sierra_Bravo , thanks for doing this thread!

I'm going to have another comparison coming up shortly as well:
ATI, Triton, ICP-Anal , Oceamo, Fauna Marin all compared against each other.
Did you do this comparison? I can't find if you did, would you provide a link if you have one?
 
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lavoisier

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Randy, normally I would not spend the efforts to answer this with evidence.
For you however, it will be an honor ;-)
I will dig out some scientific evidence to support my statement, but this will take me a while.
The answers will be found in the bio chemistry field.

However in the meantime, please trust or at least notice this "observation" as a hobbyist.
Just read through this thread. Did you ever find the evidence?
 

PSXerholic

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@Sierra_Bravo , thanks for doing this thread!


Did you do this comparison? I can't find if you did, would you provide a link if you have one?
Nope, not yet. Need to do this shortly, have ATI, Triton, FM, ICP-Analysis, Oceamo all ready to go.
Due to the Covid issues all over the place I kept holding it back.

Since I need to break down the 300 and start another temporary system for the restart seedlings, due to complete remodeling task of the office, I gotta send out the ICP lab comparison !!!!!




















Bit too much !!!!!!





































 

SMSREEF

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Nope, not yet. Need to do this shortly, have ATI, Triton, FM, ICP-Analysis, Oceamo all ready to go.
Due to the Covid issues all over the place I kept holding it back.

Since I need to break down the 300 and start another temporary system for the restart seedlings, due to complete remodeling task of the office, I gotta send out the ICP lab comparison !!!!!




















Bit too much !!!!!!





































Wow!!! Just Wow!
it will be interesting to see the ICP data on my dream tank:p
 

PSXerholic

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Just read through this thread. Did you ever find the evidence?
Well, as I'm reading a lot of scientific publications about corals and their metabolic processes, this info is really well scattered all over the place when you start reading about calcification and trace element roles in corals and other marine organisms. The original work I still haven't seen yet, and must been in scanned form and not digital form which I can sort of search for in my files.

Anyways, if you search in scientific publication platforms, you will find a lot of information which you won't need to have a PhD in Biochemistry to sense that there is an important correlation, proven or not! Common sense for theories ;-)

Search for "Barium Coral" and you will find things like this, that do provide some interesting information on Barium.






I plan to buy next year with the tank back up running after restart, to use a few Ion Selective probes to measure the impact and effects of Barium, Fluoride and maybe Copper as well as Tin, Zinc and Nickel.
Dang that's a playground right there ;-)
But Barium and Fluoride will be the focus.

I personally do see that Barium will be used up by corals pretty heavily and maybe even as a substitute for other missing elements. It makes corals likely harder in it's structure, tanks that reach a low level of Ba below 6-8microgram/L experience a sort of under saturation effect. Means you will have to supplement quite some Ba for a while until corals have build this trace into their sceleton, until tank consumption normlaizes. It's not fun to deal with this effect.

I was recently installing on this 300G a GEO1218 Carx and a subsequent GEO818 to please the tank demand and there was no Reborn available anymore as we all know, so I had to use another brand of aragonite based media, likely crushed rocks, however the Barium levels bottomed out with that media, other elements had to be supplemented much more and I still have issues to bring Barium back up with this massive growth. So I do biweekly ICP to determine the Barium saturation phase and unfortunately I did again experience that many but not all Corals suffer from insufficient Barium levels apparently. It's sort of a paled bleached out effect on the affected SPS, and as soon I dose like 30-40microgram/L I can see the colors coming back slowly and then paling out again if I do not keep up with the Barium dosage. Issue is I don't want to miss the saturation level and overshoot on Barium! It's a pain. Now I have approx 200lbs Little Reborn in the calcium reactor setup and hope this media can compete with it's big brother ;-)

Hope it helps interested readers on their own journey ............
 
Fritz

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Andre. Are you supplementing your lights with anything besides the powermodule you have?

Anything for fluorescence?
I did a DLI analysis recently on the lights.
Gives the total light energy over the day.
I use the ATI Hybrid Powermodule LED/T5x8
Supplemented by 2 ReefBrites Blue XHO
My current combo since a while is front to back:
actinic blue
super actinic
actinic blue
azure
LED CLUSTER
purple
actinic blue
super actinic (if not this I use another actinic blue)
actinic blue
All Giesemann bulbs............


Posts are here:



1586540949466.png


1586544182370.png


1586544509070.png
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Well, as I'm reading a lot of scientific publications about corals and their metabolic processes, this info is really well scattered all over the place when you start reading about calcification and trace element roles in corals and other marine organisms. The original work I still haven't seen yet, and must been in scanned form and not digital form which I can sort of search for in my files.

Anyways, if you search in scientific publication platforms, you will find a lot of information which you won't need to have a PhD in Biochemistry to sense that there is an important correlation, proven or not! Common sense for theories ;-)

Search for "Barium Coral" and you will find things like this, that do provide some interesting information on Barium.






I plan to buy next year with the tank back up running after restart, to use a few Ion Selective probes to measure the impact and effects of Barium, Fluoride and maybe Copper as well as Tin, Zinc and Nickel.
Dang that's a playground right there ;-)
But Barium and Fluoride will be the focus.

I personally do see that Barium will be used up by corals pretty heavily and maybe even as a substitute for other missing elements. It makes corals likely harder in it's structure, tanks that reach a low level of Ba below 6-8microgram/L experience a sort of under saturation effect. Means you will have to supplement quite some Ba for a while until corals have build this trace into their sceleton, until tank consumption normlaizes. It's not fun to deal with this effect.

I was recently installing on this 300G a GEO1218 Carx and a subsequent GEO818 to please the tank demand and there was no Reborn available anymore as we all know, so I had to use another brand of aragonite based media, likely crushed rocks, however the Barium levels bottomed out with that media, other elements had to be supplemented much more and I still have issues to bring Barium back up with this massive growth. So I do biweekly ICP to determine the Barium saturation phase and unfortunately I did again experience that many but not all Corals suffer from insufficient Barium levels apparently. It's sort of a paled bleached out effect on the affected SPS, and as soon I dose like 30-40microgram/L I can see the colors coming back slowly and then paling out again if I do not keep up with the Barium dosage. Issue is I don't want to miss the saturation level and overshoot on Barium! It's a pain. Now I have approx 200lbs Little Reborn in the calcium reactor setup and hope this media can compete with it's big brother ;-)

Hope it helps interested readers on their own journey ............

Certainly barium gets into coral skeletons in place of calcium. It also gets into abiotic calcium carbonate the same way: by substituting for calcium. Just soaking calcium carbonate in a barium-containing solution puts barium into the structure.

The mere presence of barium in calcium carbonate is not an indication that the organism that deposited the skeleton needed the barium, or even that it happened in the living part of the skeleton. The decline of it in a reef aquarium is likewise not an indication that it was needed or useful or even involved with living organisms.
 

PSXerholic

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Certainly barium gets into coral skeletons in place of calcium. It also gets into abiotic calcium carbonate the same way: by substituting for calcium. Just soaking calcium carbonate in a barium-containing solution puts barium into the structure.

The mere presence of barium in calcium carbonate is not an indication that the organism that deposited the skeleton needed the barium, or even that it happened in the living part of the skeleton. The decline of it in a reef aquarium is likewise not an indication that it was needed or useful or even involved with living organisms.
Wow, that comment wasn't new to me, but totally forgot about this fact!!!
Well it made me thinking, and it may resolved an issue, leading me to see more evidence that Barium may play an important role in Photosynthetic processes between Host and Symbiotic algae or in the organic matrix, affecting Tissue renewal. @Dana Riddle
Corals are visibly improving daily, only thing changed was the Ba on a DOS system.
Dosing 30 microgram/L Barium per day now, trying to hit the saturation level of the system, so Barium will not fall below NSW levels.
1604092348335.png
 

ScottB

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Man, your Fluoride is extremely low!
Also your Iodine comparison is incorrect, they are almost the same measurement, you compare micro against milligram per Liter.

I'm going to have another comparison coming up shortly as well:
ATI, Triton, ICP-Anal , Oceamo, Fauna Marin all compared against each other.

I still use ATI for my digital "ICP Assessment and dosing generator tool" ;-)
Looking however forward to the next comparison.

-Andre

Eye candy for attention ......

I feel like I read such a comparison as you mentioned here, but now I cannot seem to properly google it. Can you spare a link to it if you did manage to post one? Many thanks.
 
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ScottB

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Nope, not yet. Need to do this shortly, have ATI, Triton, FM, ICP-Analysis, Oceamo all ready to go.
Due to the Covid issues all over the place I kept holding it back.

Since I need to break down the 300 and start another temporary system for the restart seedlings, due to complete remodeling task of the office, I gotta send out the ICP lab comparison !!!!!




















Bit too much !!!!!!





































Good Lord! This should be posted in the eye candy thread.
 
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