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rcpalmer1

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Background

Ok. So I have had a saltwater tank for over 20 years. Things have changed over the years and what was the standard way of doing thing are now unheard of. In the last year I realized how much things had changed and how much information was there. Before corals were few to pick from and even less was understood how to get them to survive. If there was ever a problem it was because your nutrients were too high. I changed the filter system on a tank that I have had running for maybe 5 years or more. It was at the time a fish only tank. I have added corals and they have grown faster than expected and it stays so clear it doesn’t look like there is water in it. All of the equipment on it is low end or homemade. I was thinking I had a good grasp on running a tank so I got another tank. It is a 120 gallon tank. It has a 30 gallon sump, esshop Axium 160 skimmer, Kessil AP700 light, refugium, filter socks, 15 gallon auto top off, 4 head dosing pump with containers, temperature controller, 55w UV filter, carbon reactor, 3000GPH DC return pump and a couple 1000GPH programmable DC power heads. I started it with about 100lbs of Real Reef and a couple bags of live sand. I have lost a few fish and corals but most are doing well. I have a sailfin tang, 3 PJ cardinals, dotty back ,damsel, dragonet and an anthias. All have been in the tank for a few months. I also have around 50 corals in it.

What I have done

So after months my tank was never crystal clear like I wanted it. It had a haze in it. Phosphate and nitrates were both undetectable. This had been a reefers goal for decades. After talking to different people and info from this forum I been told I need phosphates around .03 and nitrates around 5. I don’t want to dose nitrate and phosphates so I had increase the number of fish I had and feed them a lot more. I turned the refgium light off and only have a small piece of cheato in it. I put my skimmer and UV on timers. I also stopped cleaning socks as often. I also lost a fish during this time. The fish was in the rocks so I was unable to find it. My nitrates got up to 15 and have been between 5 -15 for the last months. After the fish disappeared my phosphate got up to 0.1. within a few days they dropped back to 0.0.I am still trying to get my dosing dialed in. I am using BRS 2 part. My Alk has stayed between 9-9.7.

Problem

For the last few weeks my tank has been covered in Cyano. I am just confusted. I don’t know if I should cut back on the feeding or increase it. Any opions of what I am not getting?
 

Diesel

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Well, yes a lot have changed.
We used to paint the white T12 blue for some kind of blue color back in the 70's
Even cyano might not be cyano anymore.
There is a way to test for it.
I'm not at my laptop to get you the link but maybe the good folks of the #reefsquad can post that link from @twilliard
 

saltyfilmfolks

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know if I should cut back on the feeding or increase it. Any opions of what I am not getting?
The rock doesn't mature quickly.

IMO. Run the skimmer and UV full time , skim dry if over skimming is a concern. The UV won't effect nutiriens save it may blast some stuff smaller to its more easily broken down.

Feed the fish healthfully.
Adjust the flow so you have as few dead spots as possible and look for detritus settling.

I'm a big advocate of sand cleaning and stirring. With a weak biofilter sand gets full of poop fast. Rotting food and poop create exactly what cyano loves. NO3 and po4 and co2 and ammonia.

The peroxide test will mainly tell you if it's cyano or spirulina (also a cyano ), but spirulina is appearantlt resistant to chemical antibiotics like chemiclean.
 
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rcpalmer1

rcpalmer1

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I haven't tried chemiclean yet because I would rather deal with it but figure out what is off in the system. That way when it goes away it doesn't come back. I was hoping it was just a cycle being a relatively new tank but it hasnb't gone away in a few weeks now. It is starting to kill some of my zoas.
 
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rcpalmer1

rcpalmer1

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Can you post a picture?
20171029_234826.jpg
20171029_234826.jpg


View attachment 20171029_234904.jpg

View attachment 20171029_234859.jpg

View attachment 20171029_234850.jpg
 

Salty1962

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I use Chemiclean to bump start the removal and correct husbandry practices from there. Maybe more, or changed more often, carbon and some GFO;) I was surprised when I got my Triton test back to find my Po4 elevated when my test kit, HANNA, showed <.02.
 

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I use Chemiclean to bump start the removal and correct husbandry practices from there. Maybe more, or changed more often, carbon and some GFO;) I was surprised when I got my Triton test back to find my Po4 elevated when my test kit, HANNA, showed <.02.
Do you use the Hanna Phosphate checker, or the Phosphorus checker?
 
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rcpalmer1

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Do you use the Hanna Phosphate checker, or the Phosphorus checker?

I think this was asking Salty but I have the Hanna phosphate tester. After a month of only getting a reading of 0.00 I took a sample to World Wide Corals. They tested it at 0.00. I then took a sample to Top Shelf Aquatics a week later. They did a phosphorus test and got 2 ppb. That is when I started cutting back on filtration and started feeding more along with adding more fish.

changed more often, carbon and some GFO

I may be wrong but my understanding is that GFO removes phosphate. I am being told my phosphates are to low. I would think this would take me the wrong way but I may be wrong. I do have GFO I can put in my reactor in needed.

I was surprised when I got my Triton test back

I am considering ICP testing.
 

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iemsparticus

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I would whack that with a tooth brush
I would whack it with a Battle Brush, myself... ;)

I think this was asking Salty but I have the Hanna phosphate tester.
The reason I ask is the Phosphorus checker has been demonstrated to be much more accurate in the ranges most of us keep our phosphates. I started with the Low Range Phosphate checker, and have since moved on to the Phosphorus checker, and get much better results. :)
 
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This is what is confusing to me. My phosphate and nitrates are so low that I have been told I need to raise them by some very knowledgeable people including the guys at WWC and Randy. Then I am being told I need to correct my husbandry, add GFO, and do more water changes. From my understanding all of these actions lower nutrients. If my phosphate is already in the parts per billion how how much lower do I need to go? I agree I must not be doing everything right or the tank would be doing great. So I can understand can it be explained why to do the different suggestions. Basically what is wrong and what the action does to fix it.Please don't take this as I don't appreciate the suggestions. I do. I would just rather have the tank look bad until I can understand what is going on. That way once I figure out how to fix it I won't have the problem again.
 

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This is what is confusing to me. My phosphate and nitrates are so low that I have been told I need to raise them by some very knowledgeable people including the guys at WWC and Randy. Then I am being told I need to correct my husbandry, add GFO, and do more water changes. From my understanding all of these actions lower nutrients. If my phosphate is already in the parts per billion how how much lower do I need to go? I agree I must not be doing everything right or the tank would be doing great. So I can understand can it be explained why to do the different suggestions. Basically what is wrong and what the action does to fix it.Please don't take this as I don't appreciate the suggestions. I do. I would just rather have the tank look bad until I can understand what is going on. That way once I figure out how to fix it I won't have the problem again.
Cyano and other algae feed on more than no3 and po4. Co2 is a big one. Ammonia is another one bacteria like.
And looking at clumps there and our referencing our reccomendation to clean it, it's to remove dying matter that's rotting under the mat that is producing ammonia , co2 and no3 and po4 as waste.

As far as chasing nutint numbers , don't. It gets stupid. Yea , you need some in there. Clearly you have some in there. You feed the the fish. They poop. You're good.
Try not to let them get too high. Try not to let them get too low.

Engineers hate that kind of talk becuse it's not precise. Biologists and folks who raise animals and have gardens get it though.

If you basically keep your tank clean and don't over feed and do water changes for the minerals you're good to go really.
 

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I think this was asking Salty but I have the Hanna phosphate tester. After a month of only getting a reading of 0.00 I took a sample to World Wide Corals. They tested it at 0.00. I then took a sample to Top Shelf Aquatics a week later. They did a phosphorus test and got 2 ppb. That is when I started cutting back on filtration and started feeding more along with adding more fish.



I may be wrong but my understanding is that GFO removes phosphate. I am being told my phosphates are to low. I would think this would take me the wrong way but I may be wrong. I do have GFO I can put in my reactor in needed.



I am considering ICP testing.
My bad on not reading the right levels. 0.0 is, in my tank, real low. The ICP test will tell you allot.
 
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rcpalmer1

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So last night when I got home I blew off all the rocks and sand. I did it again about noon today and changed socks. Water is clear ans sand was white. I did a water test. Phosphate o.oo and nitrate 3ppm. This what my sand looks like 7 hours later.
20171031_194641.jpg
20171031_194636.jpg
 

iemsparticus

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So last night when I got home I blew off all the rocks and sand. I did it again about noon today and changed socks. Water is clear ans sand was white. I did a water test. Phosphate o.oo and nitrate 3ppm. This what my sand looks like 7 hours later.
20171031_194641.jpg
20171031_194636.jpg
You’re not going to fix it over night, friend. :)

Keep working at it, keep up on your husbandry, keep up on those WCs, syphon that sand bed every time you do a WC, keep brushing your rock off, etc... it will come around. :)
 
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rcpalmer1

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I know things don't get fixed over night. I am just trying to wrap my head around why what is happening is happening and what needs to be done. The picture in my avatar is of the tank just a few months ago. Nothing bad growing but just couldn't get the water crystal clear. I am told by several reputable people my nutrients are to low. I increase my feeding and reduce exporting. My nutrients never get up to where I am shooting for but the tank gets overwhelmed with algae. It has been several weeks with almost no nutrients yet the algae is so thick it is killing corals dayly. I have a 3000gph return pump. 15 minutes after cleaning all the rocks the water is clear again. In a hour you can see the algae already growing back.

This is still what is confusing me. If someone has explained it I didn't get it. My nutrients are still too low yet the solution is to do thing to lower nutreints?
 

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