CONSCIOUS SLAM DUNNING-K CONSCIOUSNESS...

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Battlecorals

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In life whatever your experiences have amounted to, in any aspect, there is always someone who did it before you. Whatever "it" may be. Whether they did it better may be debatable but there is no doubt that hobby seniority is a real thing. Personally, I see anyone who was involved with reefing before me as being just that much farther ahead in the game, and someone I respect and generally look up to. And that does not mean that those who got involved after are looked at with any less favor, but I very much believe that once you have decided to take on a new hobby, from that moment on you are building experience. And as a hobbyist myself implanted somewhere along this hypothetical timeline, I can’t help but view those who made that decision to become hobbyists before me to hold kind of an unspoken understanding of a stronger and more learned status among the rest of us. Regardless of their individual experiences or actual wealth of knowledge. For me guys like Mike Paletta, Anthony Calfo, Eric Borneman just to name a few, and more locally guys like Phil and Dave stick out as fellow refers that I will always have this higher regard for. Role models in every sense. But I ponder that the chain is continuous, and just as I had people I could learn from and look up to, so too did those people before me, and those before them and so on. Like who was Mike P's "Mike"? And further, will my knowledge and experiences perhaps become an example for some people that come in after me then? Will I be someones "Mike P", and will they carry the flag for those that come after them? I know, deep stuff lol.

Anyway, here's where I am going with all of this. There will always exist a point where “remember when” does not apply to me. And those who came before me that can share in the camaraderie of those memories share something only they can, and they will always maintain some higher level of “superiority”, in this hierarchy. Not necessarily elitist but definitely owning a sort of “cool factor” that those of us not involved at or before that particular time will never realize nor revel in. At least in that previous time line. I think the closest I've ever come was when Mike Paletta himself emailed me about placing an order. I mean it when I say I was literally Starstruck. Or, many years earlier when I got a call from Eric Borneman who was researching flatworms at the time. I really felt a tease of a hint of that "cool factor" then, just being only one degree of separation away from my proverbial Idols. But I still wasn't "in" so to speak. And never would be. My timeline began way after these old schoolers.



Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 10.28.58 AM.png



I can definitely remember a time where I was pretty sure I had it all figured out and just about knew it all. I was excited and perhaps over enthusiastic to share my "expertise" and newfound stronghold of knowledge with anyone willing to listen. But as time progresses, the more I know and absorb about the very delicate intricacies of reef keeping, the more humble my conscious gets and the eagerness to exploit that wisdom shrinks exponentially. Demonstrating almost to a tee the Dunning-Kruger effect, that states basically, the less we know about something (in this case its reefing) and the many different aspects of it, the more we think we know, and the more we are willing and eager to offer advice and share our “expertise” with people we feel don’t know as much as we do.

The contrast to this is that in reality, as our knowledge base actually grows we become more reluctant to share that expertise as our confidence in that wisdom is fleeting, the more knowledgeable we become. And by that I mean the more we know there is out there to learn, the less we feel, we ourselves have actually learned. Humbled by what we know we still don't know. So almost in spite of a massive amount of useful information we may have in our heads after 15-20+ years or more of reefing, the less likely our willingness to to use this information to guide others becomes, compared to early on when we were learning and absorbing most of this stuff. And to this end I think that the people who are most eager to share and teach others are those who are in fact actively learning this stuff as well.



Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 10.09.07 AM.png
Is that a good thing? I really don't know. Obviously there's a ton of mediocre information getting handed out and passed around by people who's enthusiasm and confidence outpaces their actual knowledge base. But I don't know that it's really a detriment. What do you think? I know this thing is kind of all over the place and more a stream than polished write up. But I'll conclude by asking, when you consider your own role models and where you are on that timeline in this hobby, do you find yourself second guessing advice you'd like to share? Or are you at the high point of the first curve, sharing and advising like you'd expect a would be seasoned expert might...
 
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Nburg's Reef

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Interesting write-up. I agree that just because someone comes after you, doesn't mean they are less skilled or knowledgeable. I started my first saltwater tank 15 year ago, but still don't see myself as anything close to a wise, seasoned reefer, and there are a lot of people in the hobby only a few years that are probably much better at it than me.

I often wonder if its because I learned when reefing was starting to go semi-mainstream. There were very few saltwater only stores and we still didn't know a lot about reefing. Unlike today where we have a lot more academic influence and years of anecdotal trial and error at our google fingertips. I got a handle on 95% of what I need to know back then and dont scour the forums like I used to and don't pick up on the modern nuances and methods as much, which possibly leaves me not as wise as some of the newbies.

One thing I did learn over time is patience and that new reefs probably are not going to be that impressive for at least a good 2 years.
 

A_Blind_Reefer

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You know, everything changes. What works for one, may not for another. Outside of reefing, in my profession, I caught on quick. I was ahead of most as I was younger and more in tune with newer technology that the seasoned pros just weren’t willing to accept. dang whipper snappers. As I rose and the elders started to fall out, there was a long period where I was Superman. One cocky sob really, but I got away with it as I knew my stuff. Blink your eyes, and I became the elder, not wanting to accept the new ways. Here’s the youngsters, all smart and stuff. dang know it alls! ….some even did. Of course there was much to be learned from the elders, and probably vice versa as well. Youngsters are sponges, soaking up everything even when you think there just spacing out. Us elders, well….the sponge dried up a long time ago. The one thing I did learn from them that there is more than one way to do the thing. When we’re younger, it’s just one way…my way. When a youngster shows you a new way, maybe faster, maybe easier, with the same outcome….it puts you in your place. Something some of us weren’t used to for sure! So, more to the question…the curve for sure applies. As for second guessing, all the time man. Honestly, who the hell ran across dinoflagellates 20-30 years ago? Who am I to suggest what to do? If you were to tell me in 1999 that we would be shipping a vial of tank water out, getting a report card, and dosing 42 separate elements I think I would have punched you in the face to wake you up! In the hobby, I know nothing anymore! Ha. My profession, well I think there’s another drop in the curve, beyond the expert peak.
 

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I understand and can appreciate the thread. People see my tank and the growth I'm getting and ask what the secret is. Funny thing is, there isn't one really. I feel as though my tank has just "Forrest Gumped" it's way along and it's working out somehow..lol. The feeling is more of a reefing imposter than a reefer and I'm just waiting for it to come crashing down. One way to be successful in life, of all facets, is the ability to learn or heed information from someone regardless of their level of experience. There could very well be a nugget of information you haven't thought of in there. As far as reefing...I don't know much in comparison to a lot. Keeping It Simple Stupid, so to speak, has worked well for the last 5-6 years. In no way does this make me a pro at it...but I've watched it on t.v.
 

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Interesting write-up. I agree that just because someone comes after you, doesn't mean they are less skilled or knowledgeable. I started my first saltwater tank 15 year ago, but still don't see myself as anything close to a wise, seasoned reefer, and there are a lot of people in the hobby only a few years that are probably much better at it than me.

I often wonder if its because I learned when reefing was starting to go semi-mainstream. There were very few saltwater only stores and we still didn't know a lot about reefing. Unlike today where we have a lot more academic influence and years of anecdotal trial and error at our google fingertips. I got a handle on 95% of what I need to know back then and dont scour the forums like I used to and don't pick up on the modern nuances and methods as much, which possibly leaves me not as wise as some of the newbies.

One thing I did learn over time is patience and that new reefs probably are not going to be that impressive for at least a good 2 years.

I couldn’t have said this much better myself. I’ve been in the hobby going on 19 years myself. There’s plenty of things I couldn’t tell you the first thing about and plenty that I could give you my advice on. I’ve had to become that first peak a time or two again as I’ve really gotten back into it to learn things that I never did, but it is rare that I’m offering my own advice as there are many things in this hobby that are just not one size fits all
 

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My experience in the hobby is probably old enough to legally buy a beer, but I basically quit putting in my two pennies of advice to others about a decade ago. While my enthusiasm for the hobby is as strong as ever, my eagerness to showcase my reefing prowess probably needs viagra these days. Lol.
 
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Interesting write-up. I agree that just because someone comes after you, doesn't mean they are less skilled or knowledgeable. I started my first saltwater tank 15 year ago, but still don't see myself as anything close to a wise, seasoned reefer, and there are a lot of people in the hobby only a few years that are probably much better at it than me.

I often wonder if its because I learned when reefing was starting to go semi-mainstream. There were very few saltwater only stores and we still didn't know a lot about reefing. Unlike today where we have a lot more academic influence and years of anecdotal trial and error at our google fingertips. I got a handle on 95% of what I need to know back then and dont scour the forums like I used to and don't pick up on the modern nuances and methods as much, which possibly leaves me not as wise as some of the newbies.

One thing I did learn over time is patience and that new reefs probably are not going to be that impressive for at least a good 2 years.
Great point. And one I hadn’t really thought about in detail. But certainly learning methods have changed dramatically in 20-25 years. Maybe even more that the actual hobby itself. And this definitely plays in to what an individual can learn and absorb on their own. And therefore what they can then pass on.

excellent post! Thanks for engaging.
 

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I feel there is so much mis information being posted in the forums, and no one holds these posters accountable. On the other hand, what the heck do I know and I just let it go. So much has changed, but when some says someone else’s coral died because the PO4 was higher than .03, it’s just ridiculous.
My biggest peeve is you don’t need all this fancy, expensive equipment to be successful. I actually feel bad for new young reefers just getting into the hobby with the way things are today. I remember the old Reef Central SPS forum that used to go through a page a day with all the old school reefers. Amazing grown out SPS tanks, experiences and debates, endless readings and tons of threads to follow. I felt like a baby compared to the heavy hitters.
I don’t do Facebook but that was the demise of all the forums. I enjoy coming here because there is more substance in the threads here. To be honest, years ago I was not a fan of Battlecorals out of my own ego, pride. What do they call it contempt prior to investigation. Adam is an asset to the community and hopefully will sustain livestock that can be enjoyed for many years to come.
 
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mdb_talon

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Fantastic writeup.

Personally i am certainly more towards the latter end of the timeline in that i know enough to know there is a whole lot I dont know!! I certainly feel less confident in the amount I "know" now than 15 years ago when i had just been in the hobby for several years.

Having said that I still try to share what I know (or think I know). The more people who share their experiences and learned knowledge then I think the more likely the collective knowledge of the hobby grows.

I do think the way we generally learn now(forums, short articles, videos) has many advantages, but I also think a lot of context and supporting information to advice is lost. Their is something to be said still for book learning. I just recently went back and reread for the 3rd time Anthony Calfos book of coral propagation. Over 20 years since I read it the first time....yet it is still loaded with a lot of information useful today
 

Reefing102

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I feel there is so much mis information being posted in the forums, and no one holds these posters accountable. On the other hand, what the heck do I know and I just let it go. So much has changed, but when some says someone else’s coral died because the PO4 was higher than .03, it’s just ridiculous.
My biggest peeve is you don’t need all this fancy, expensive equipment to be successful. I actually feel bad for new young reefers just getting into the hobby with the way things are today. I remember the old Reef Central SPS forum that used to go through a page a day with all the old school reefers. Amazing grown out SPS tanks, experiences and debates, endless readings and tons of threads to follow. I felt like a baby compared to the heavy hitters.
I don’t do Facebook but that was the demise of all the forums. I enjoy coming here because there is more substance in the threads here. To be honest, years ago I was not a fan of Battlecorals out of my own ego, pride. What do they call it contempt prior to investigation. Adam is an asset to the community and hopefully will sustain livestock that can be enjoyed for many years to come.
Now this is interesting and not disagreeing. The old days of RC, they called you out in a heartbeat with misinformation too. I do think part of it, is there’s so many accepted different ways now instead of a one size fits all, that to call one out, may result in a learning experience for oneself instead of changing the other persons thought process. I really hope that made sense.
 

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Now this is interesting and not disagreeing. The old days of RC, they called you out in a heartbeat with misinformation too. I do think part of it, is there’s so many accepted different ways now instead of a one size fits all, that to call one out, may result in a learning experience for oneself instead of changing the other persons thought process. I really hope that made sense.
Oh yeah! That makes a lot of sense. So much has changed with the advancement of technology but not much has changed. Lighting, flow and stable parameters stay the same. I am behind the times with technology, and all the new additives/methods. You cannot say only dose what you can test for, anymore. That was pounded into my head. A lot of it now being older is how important is it that I am right or show how smart I am. I am just another human floundering through life trying to figure it all out as I go.
 

Reefing102

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Definitely. If/when I give advice, it’s based on my experience and I try to emphasize there’s others that know a lot more than I do. I remember that being pounded into my head too. That and all those “instant cycle” products were snake oil
 

Lost in the Sauce

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In life whatever your experiences have amounted to, in any aspect, there is always someone who did it before you. Whatever "it" may be. Whether they did it better may be debatable but there is no doubt that hobby seniority is a real thing. Personally, I see anyone who was involved with reefing before me as being just that much farther ahead in the game, and someone I respect and generally look up to. And that does not mean that those who got involved after are looked at with any less favor, but I very much believe that once you have decided to take on a new hobby, from that moment on you are building experience. And as a hobbyist myself implanted somewhere along this hypothetical timeline, I can’t help but view those who made that decision to become hobbyists before me to hold kind of an unspoken understanding of a stronger and more learned status among the rest of us. Regardless of their individual experiences or actual wealth of knowledge. For me guys like Mike Paletta, Anthony Calfo, Eric Borneman just to name a few, and more locally guys like Phil and Dave stick out as fellow refers that I will always have this higher regard for. Role models in every sense. But I ponder that the chain is continuous, and just as I had people I could learn from and look up to, so too did those people before me, and those before them and so on. Like who was Mike P's "Mike"? And further, will my knowledge and experiences perhaps become an example for some people that come in after me then? Will I be someones "Mike P", and will they carry the flag for those that come after them? I know, deep stuff lol.

Anyway, here's where I am going with all of this. There will always exist a point where “remember when” does not apply to me. And those who came before me that can share in the camaraderie of those memories share something only they can, and they will always maintain some higher level of “superiority”, in this hierarchy. Not necessarily elitist but definitely owning a sort of “cool factor” that those of us not involved at or before that particular time will never realize nor revel in. At least in that previous time line. I think the closest I've ever come was when Mike Paletta himself emailed me about placing an order. I mean it when I say I was literally Starstruck. Or, many years earlier when I got a call from Eric Borneman who was researching flatworms at the time. I really felt a tease of a hint of that "cool factor" then, just being only one degree of separation away from my proverbial Idols. But I still wasn't "in" so to speak. And never would be. My timeline began way after these old schoolers.



Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 10.28.58 AM.png



I can definitely remember a time where I was pretty sure I had it all figured out and just about knew it all. I was excited and perhaps over enthusiastic to share my "expertise" and newfound stronghold of knowledge with anyone willing to listen. But as time progresses, the more I know and absorb about the very delicate intricacies of reef keeping, the more humble my conscious gets and the eagerness to exploit that wisdom shrinks exponentially. Demonstrating almost to a tee the Dunning-Kruger effect, that states basically, the less we know about something (in this case its reefing) and the many different aspects of it, the more we think we know, and the more we are willing and eager to offer advice and share our “expertise” with people we feel don’t know as much as we do.

The contrast to this is that in reality, as our knowledge base actually grows we become more reluctant to share that expertise as our confidence in that wisdom is fleeting, the more knowledgeable we become. And by that I mean the more we know there is out there to learn, the less we feel, we ourselves have actually learned. Humbled by what we know we still don't know. So almost in spite of a massive amount of useful information we may have in our heads after 15-20+ years or more of reefing, the less likely our willingness to to use this information to guide others becomes, compared to early on when we were learning and absorbing most of this stuff. And to this end I think that the people who are most eager to share and teach others are those who are in fact actively learning this stuff as well.



Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 10.09.07 AM.png
Is that a good thing? I really don't know. Obviously there's a ton of mediocre information getting handed out and passed around by people who's enthusiasm and confidence outpaces their actual knowledge base. But I don't know that it's really a detriment. What do you think? I know this thing is kind of all over the place and more a stream than polished write up. But I'll conclude by asking, when you consider your own role models and where you are on that timeline in this hobby, do you find yourself second guessing advice you'd like to share? Or are you at the high point of the first curve, sharing and advising like you'd expect a would be seasoned expert might...
Adam,. I very much enjoy your not polished up thoughts. Thank you for the write up!
 

Dburr1014

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I understand and can appreciate the thread. People see my tank and the growth I'm getting and ask what the secret is. Funny thing is, there isn't one really. I feel as though my tank has just "Forrest Gumped" it's way along and it's working out somehow..lol. The feeling is more of a reefing imposter than a reefer and I'm just waiting for it to come crashing down. One way to be successful in life, of all facets, is the ability to learn or heed information from someone regardless of their level of experience. There could very well be a nugget of information you haven't thought of in there. As far as reefing...I don't know much in comparison to a lot. Keeping It Simple Stupid, so to speak, has worked well for the last 5-6 years. In no way does this make me a pro at it...but I've watched it on t.v.
Fake it till you make it!
An old adage
 

Dan_P

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In life whatever your experiences have amounted to, in any aspect, there is always someone who did it before you. Whatever "it" may be. Whether they did it better may be debatable but there is no doubt that hobby seniority is a real thing. Personally, I see anyone who was involved with reefing before me as being just that much farther ahead in the game, and someone I respect and generally look up to. And that does not mean that those who got involved after are looked at with any less favor, but I very much believe that once you have decided to take on a new hobby, from that moment on you are building experience. And as a hobbyist myself implanted somewhere along this hypothetical timeline, I can’t help but view those who made that decision to become hobbyists before me to hold kind of an unspoken understanding of a stronger and more learned status among the rest of us. Regardless of their individual experiences or actual wealth of knowledge. For me guys like Mike Paletta, Anthony Calfo, Eric Borneman just to name a few, and more locally guys like Phil and Dave stick out as fellow refers that I will always have this higher regard for. Role models in every sense. But I ponder that the chain is continuous, and just as I had people I could learn from and look up to, so too did those people before me, and those before them and so on. Like who was Mike P's "Mike"? And further, will my knowledge and experiences perhaps become an example for some people that come in after me then? Will I be someones "Mike P", and will they carry the flag for those that come after them? I know, deep stuff lol.

Anyway, here's where I am going with all of this. There will always exist a point where “remember when” does not apply to me. And those who came before me that can share in the camaraderie of those memories share something only they can, and they will always maintain some higher level of “superiority”, in this hierarchy. Not necessarily elitist but definitely owning a sort of “cool factor” that those of us not involved at or before that particular time will never realize nor revel in. At least in that previous time line. I think the closest I've ever come was when Mike Paletta himself emailed me about placing an order. I mean it when I say I was literally Starstruck. Or, many years earlier when I got a call from Eric Borneman who was researching flatworms at the time. I really felt a tease of a hint of that "cool factor" then, just being only one degree of separation away from my proverbial Idols. But I still wasn't "in" so to speak. And never would be. My timeline began way after these old schoolers.



Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 10.28.58 AM.png



I can definitely remember a time where I was pretty sure I had it all figured out and just about knew it all. I was excited and perhaps over enthusiastic to share my "expertise" and newfound stronghold of knowledge with anyone willing to listen. But as time progresses, the more I know and absorb about the very delicate intricacies of reef keeping, the more humble my conscious gets and the eagerness to exploit that wisdom shrinks exponentially. Demonstrating almost to a tee the Dunning-Kruger effect, that states basically, the less we know about something (in this case its reefing) and the many different aspects of it, the more we think we know, and the more we are willing and eager to offer advice and share our “expertise” with people we feel don’t know as much as we do.

The contrast to this is that in reality, as our knowledge base actually grows we become more reluctant to share that expertise as our confidence in that wisdom is fleeting, the more knowledgeable we become. And by that I mean the more we know there is out there to learn, the less we feel, we ourselves have actually learned. Humbled by what we know we still don't know. So almost in spite of a massive amount of useful information we may have in our heads after 15-20+ years or more of reefing, the less likely our willingness to to use this information to guide others becomes, compared to early on when we were learning and absorbing most of this stuff. And to this end I think that the people who are most eager to share and teach others are those who are in fact actively learning this stuff as well.



Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 10.09.07 AM.png
Is that a good thing? I really don't know. Obviously there's a ton of mediocre information getting handed out and passed around by people who's enthusiasm and confidence outpaces their actual knowledge base. But I don't know that it's really a detriment. What do you think? I know this thing is kind of all over the place and more a stream than polished write up. But I'll conclude by asking, when you consider your own role models and where you are on that timeline in this hobby, do you find yourself second guessing advice you'd like to share? Or are you at the high point of the first curve, sharing and advising like you'd expect a would be seasoned expert might...
A few thoughts.

The confidence curve makes sense. What would be interesting is an overlay of a ”belief” curve. There are many things we believe to be true. Does experience replace belief with knowledge or is it person dependent?

There is certain knowledge that is not shared by the experienced practioner: Implicit knowledge. This is all the important stuff that has become routine or a habit or even unknown by the practitioner that a certain activity is critical. This is the stuff that does not get into books or YouTube videos. And it is likely this “hidden” knowledge forms part of the foundation of successful people. Knowledge we see passed along may only be the icing on the cake.

Social medium and the internet are mind bogglingly fantastic and valuable, but there are times when reading information sharing posts that a question comes to mind, “can two people know less than one?” In the case of social media, can a bunch of people know less than one. Here on R2R, there can be times when the answer is “yes”.

Knowing what you don’t know is a way of life. A life time pursuit. Experience can help develop this self awareness in a certain area of knowledge but it is a constant battle against our human nature to be over confident.
 

Dburr1014

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This thread really gets people thinking, I like that.
I've been at it since the 90's.
Back when we wanted zero nitrates. Dino? What's that?
I am still learning about the po4/no3, biome, ect... So much to learn.
I am an old school reefer by heart. I see some posts from newbies asking some really simple questions and I think to myself, really?? Then I slap myself and think, they really may not know. I put a lot of common sense answers. A lot of reefing to me is common sense. The cycle itself is common sense. Water+rock+food+time=cycled. Simple, but some people I feel don't understand this simple concept.

But, I am trying to help others understand. If I'm not sure, I say so. If I see bad info, I call it out.
I swear that some people don't read the posts before they put their two cents in. And I'm not talking that once in a while person. I mean it's all the time. I try to read the whole thread before I post otherwise I'm not going to be of any help.

Some don't agree what I post and that is okay. I'm sure I won't be the "Mike" in anybody's eyes but I'm okay with that as long as I help a few people on the way.

Hope this makes some sense.
 

Reefing102

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This thread really gets people thinking, I like that.
I've been at it since the 90's.
Back when we wanted zero nitrates. Dino? What's that?
I am still learning about the po4/no3, biome, ect... So much to learn.
I am an old school reefer by heart. I see some posts from newbies asking some really simple questions and I think to myself, really?? Then I slap myself and think, they really may not know. I put a lot of common sense answers. A lot of reefing to me is common sense. The cycle itself is common sense. Water+rock+food+time=cycled. Simple, but some people I feel don't understand this simple concept.

But, I am trying to help others understand. If I'm not sure, I say so. If I see bad info, I call it out.
I swear that some people don't read the posts before they put their two cents in. And I'm not talking that once in a while person. I mean it's all the time. I try to read the whole thread before I post otherwise I'm not going to be of any help.

Some don't agree what I post and that is okay. I'm sure I won't be the "Mike" in anybody's eyes but I'm okay with that as long as I help a few people on the way.

Hope this makes some sense.
I get you there. I too try to read the entire thread first, but at the same time, I’ve been guilty of the putting my two cents in too. It’s amazing how much a thread can develop from the simple question to almost an entirely different subject in the matter of a few posts

I also will occasionally think that some questions are common sense but like you, realize I was once new and asked many a newbie question when I was starting out.
 

Reef and Dive

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In life whatever your experiences have amounted to, in any aspect, there is always someone who did it before you. Whatever "it" may be. Whether they did it better may be debatable but there is no doubt that hobby seniority is a real thing. Personally, I see anyone who was involved with reefing before me as being just that much farther ahead in the game, and someone I respect and generally look up to. And that does not mean that those who got involved after are looked at with any less favor, but I very much believe that once you have decided to take on a new hobby, from that moment on you are building experience. And as a hobbyist myself implanted somewhere along this hypothetical timeline, I can’t help but view those who made that decision to become hobbyists before me to hold kind of an unspoken understanding of a stronger and more learned status among the rest of us. Regardless of their individual experiences or actual wealth of knowledge. For me guys like Mike Paletta, Anthony Calfo, Eric Borneman just to name a few, and more locally guys like Phil and Dave stick out as fellow refers that I will always have this higher regard for. Role models in every sense. But I ponder that the chain is continuous, and just as I had people I could learn from and look up to, so too did those people before me, and those before them and so on. Like who was Mike P's "Mike"? And further, will my knowledge and experiences perhaps become an example for some people that come in after me then? Will I be someones "Mike P", and will they carry the flag for those that come after them? I know, deep stuff lol.

Anyway, here's where I am going with all of this. There will always exist a point where “remember when” does not apply to me. And those who came before me that can share in the camaraderie of those memories share something only they can, and they will always maintain some higher level of “superiority”, in this hierarchy. Not necessarily elitist but definitely owning a sort of “cool factor” that those of us not involved at or before that particular time will never realize nor revel in. At least in that previous time line. I think the closest I've ever come was when Mike Paletta himself emailed me about placing an order. I mean it when I say I was literally Starstruck. Or, many years earlier when I got a call from Eric Borneman who was researching flatworms at the time. I really felt a tease of a hint of that "cool factor" then, just being only one degree of separation away from my proverbial Idols. But I still wasn't "in" so to speak. And never would be. My timeline began way after these old schoolers.



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I can definitely remember a time where I was pretty sure I had it all figured out and just about knew it all. I was excited and perhaps over enthusiastic to share my "expertise" and newfound stronghold of knowledge with anyone willing to listen. But as time progresses, the more I know and absorb about the very delicate intricacies of reef keeping, the more humble my conscious gets and the eagerness to exploit that wisdom shrinks exponentially. Demonstrating almost to a tee the Dunning-Kruger effect, that states basically, the less we know about something (in this case its reefing) and the many different aspects of it, the more we think we know, and the more we are willing and eager to offer advice and share our “expertise” with people we feel don’t know as much as we do.

The contrast to this is that in reality, as our knowledge base actually grows we become more reluctant to share that expertise as our confidence in that wisdom is fleeting, the more knowledgeable we become. And by that I mean the more we know there is out there to learn, the less we feel, we ourselves have actually learned. Humbled by what we know we still don't know. So almost in spite of a massive amount of useful information we may have in our heads after 15-20+ years or more of reefing, the less likely our willingness to to use this information to guide others becomes, compared to early on when we were learning and absorbing most of this stuff. And to this end I think that the people who are most eager to share and teach others are those who are in fact actively learning this stuff as well.



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Is that a good thing? I really don't know. Obviously there's a ton of mediocre information getting handed out and passed around by people who's enthusiasm and confidence outpaces their actual knowledge base. But I don't know that it's really a detriment. What do you think? I know this thing is kind of all over the place and more a stream than polished write up. But I'll conclude by asking, when you consider your own role models and where you are on that timeline in this hobby, do you find yourself second guessing advice you'd like to share? Or are you at the high point of the first curve, sharing and advising like you'd expect a would be seasoned expert might...
This is such an important insight we must have! It happens soo much in reefing…
 

Scdell

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It's not one person or a group of people having more experience than others.
An octopus is a brilliant animal, but it works in solitary.
Humans are a civilization, which is what it takes to conquer problems and persevere.
We work together knowingly or unknowingly to solve problems.
One person alone working by himself can and will only get so far.
It takes many minds and trial and error to solve problems.
Experience grows from that. Some people pick up on things faster than others and some people have incredible foresight.
An octopus can gain experience but can't rely on another octopus to help solve a problem.
 

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