Copper from LFS

[Joe31415]

I picked up two Clowns from my LFS yesterday and put them in my QT (DT still empty and awaiting it's first fish). Very little, though no doubt some, of the water from LFS made it's way into the QT. After some time acclimating, I dumped them into a bucket, grabbed them with a net and put them in the 20g QT.
Just for kicks, and to try out my new Hanna Copper meter I tested the QT water this morning and it came up at .06. I know that's too low to be therapeutic and I'm assuming it's from the LFS. My question is, should I worry about doing a some water changes to lower that or just leave it be and let it go down on it's own as I do regular water changes while they're in the QT.

I have yet to check the source water or my DT (in case something in there did something to the water and that's where I had my filters until the QT was ready), mainly since I assume it's from the LFS and also because I didn't realize the Hanna copper meter only came with 10 tests (have more coming though).

My gut says just leave it and it'll come down on it's own with regular water changes, but I also believe I've read that copper interferes with other meds. I guess that means I could add some copper power and get it up to theraputic levels instead of running it down to zero. At least the copper part of the QT will be done with. OTOH, it's looking like they were in copper at the LFS, so do they really need more?

One thing of note, when the guy got them for me, he filled the bag with water from a different tank. I have no idea if all their tanks (or at least those two) are plumbed together, so it's possible the fish haven't been in copper until they were bagged.

 

[Spare time]

I found out that the hanna checker is not accurate when copper is that low. I would not worry at all. You can always throw in some carbon or mixed bag like purit/chemipure or something if you are worried.

 

[Joe31415]

I found out that the hanna checker is not accurate when copper is that low. I would not worry at all. You can always throw in some carbon or mixed bag like purit/chemipure or something if you are worried.

Perfect, then I won't worry about it. I'll just do my regular water changes if I'm going to remove it or add more if I'm going to dose.
There's soooo much conflicting information about starting meds right away vs observing. And, if you go ahead and medicate as soon as you get them and which meds to medicate with barring any specific symptoms.
I'll probably go the medication route. I bought a bunch of meds that I've seen a lot of mention of around here. As soon as they show up I'll go from there.

 

[SaltyT]

Most LFS that use copper don't actually keep it at therapeutic levels so if the clowns were in copper chances are it was sub-therapeutic. If you're planning on using copper while you quarantine your clowns it wouldn't hurt to start since the recommendation is 30 days. Good call already having the hanna checker on hand.

 

[tim132]

If you intend to treat prophylactically then add more copper do not assume that because they were in copper at the lfs they don't have a parasite. It's best to assume your lfs won't have their copper at a therapeutic level and thus only masking any problems the fish may have.

Do yourself a favour, these are your first fish and you've began the right way. Quarantine everything and do not let disease get into your tank. These stories of people having to run display tanks fallow are real and becoming all the more frequent.

Whether your treatment is method is prophylactic or just to observe then that's up to you. However, some fish may not display symptoms but will still carry an issue into your display tank. It's not until you drop a fish (i.e. tangs) into your display that's more susceptible to a parasite (i.e. ich, velvet, flukes) that you see an issue rear its ugly head.

Then it's the dreaded 76 days fallow...!

 

[Spare time]

Perfect, then I won't worry about it. I'll just do my regular water changes if I'm going to remove it or add more if I'm going to dose.
There's soooo much conflicting information about starting meds right away vs observing. And, if you go ahead and medicate as soon as you get them and which meds to medicate with barring any specific symptoms.
I'll probably go the medication route. I bought a bunch of meds that I've seen a lot of mention of around here. As soon as they show up I'll go from there.

I am for doing medication right away regardless of symptoms because if they don't show any and do alter you just end up getting the display contaminated or extending qt time (or the fish dies).

 

[Joe31415]

If you intend to treat prophylactically then add more copper do not assume that because they were in copper at the lfs they don't have a parasite.

Yeah, that's the plan. If/when I do copper, I can bump it up to the correct levels. No point in removing it from the water just to redose it later.
I'll have to go back and re-read all (or a few in particular) QT medication threads. I don't remember which meds can be mixed with what or if they have to be done in a specific order or anything else. But as long as I can start copper right away, I'll probably get that going tonight since it's the only med I have on hand*

Good call already having the hanna checker on hand.

I have a number of other Hanna meters already, but from what I read the Hanna Copper checker is the only one that can give you an accurate reading when you use Copper Power (or maybe it's the only one that works for all the copper treatments). In any case, it's nice to have a number and not a color to look at. I bought the Hanna Checker at the same time as the copper power. I didn't see much point in having one and not the other.

Whether your treatment is method is prophylactic or just to observe then that's up to you.

I think I'm to medicate. It'll just be that much sooner I can get them into the DT. I'd rather medicate them for a month than have them in 20g tank in a spare bedroom for the next three months while I'm staring at an empty DT with dry (bare) rock, no lights and making sure the bacteria stay alive.

Lastly, since I'm here, I'm feeding them ChromaBoost TDO C2, which they appear to be eating. I do have some a few different kinds of flake food from my freshwater fish leftover. I assume I can give them a little of that as well (the smaller of the two seemed to take a few attempts to pick up the Chromaboost).

*If any one wants to comment, the meds I have coming are Copper Power (already have that one, will likely start it tonight), Amquel (read it's good to have on hand in case of a sudden ammonia spike), Seachem Focus/Metroplex/Kanoplex/Paraguard/Garlic Guard and PraziPro...also, a second bottle of Garlic Guard because I apperently wasn't paying attention and ordered it twice. Hopefully it has a decent shelf life if I leave it closed.

 

[tim132]

I don't have any experience with the freshwater food you've mentioned and I've never fed my marines freshwater food so can't advise you there.

I do know you mustn't use ammonia reducers (such as Seachem Prime, not sure about Amquel though) alongside copper as does something "science-y" with the ions in the water and makes the copper deadly toxic. Definitely worth having a read up on that.

 

[Joe31415]

I don't have any experience with the freshwater food you've mentioned and I've never fed my marines freshwater food so can't advise you there.

I do know you mustn't use ammonia reducers (such as Seachem Prime, not sure about Amquel though) alongside copper as does something "science-y" with the ions in the water and makes the copper deadly toxic. Definitely worth having a read up on that.

Yeah, read that in one of the threads. It was picked up as a 'just in case' thing. Of course, if my ammonia suddenly spikes, it's just a 20g tank. I could do a very large water change pretty quickly, even accounting for temperature issues, if I had to. The only thing that would slow me down is if I didn't have fresh saltwater ready to go. But even then, I could borrow some from the DT so I could at least get the QT water diluted.

 

[SaltyT]

Not sure about Amquel; however, Humblefish (with help from a chemist) tested the efficacy of using Seachem Prime with Copper Power and found that it does not create toxicity. Here's the thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/psa-prime-safe-to-use-with-copper-power.653521/
Wouldn't hurt to swap out the Amquel for Prime in case of an emergency.

 

[Joe31415]

I have some prime from the freshwater tank. I'm fairly certain the same Prime is used for fresh and marine tanks. As long as it doesn't expire, I have plenty of it on hand (and I didn't see any kind of a date on it).

 

[Spare time]

I don't have any experience with the freshwater food you've mentioned and I've never fed my marines freshwater food so can't advise you there.

I do know you mustn't use ammonia reducers (such as Seachem Prime, not sure about Amquel though) alongside copper as does something "science-y" with the ions in the water and makes the copper deadly toxic. Definitely worth having a read up on that.

You can use things like seachem prime with copper power. It is copper like cupramine where it is dangerous.

 

[Spare time]

If you are worried about ammonia, just put a bio/filter sponge in with a oversized bottle of bacteria.

 

[Joe31415]

If you are worried about ammonia, just put a bio/filter sponge in with a oversized bottle of bacteria.

I know I read in a lot of the QT threads about prime being used for ammonia. It just doesn't jive with my expierence. With a freshwater tank it was just used for removing chlorine/chloramine from tap water during water changes. But looking at the bottle it does say it 'detoxifies' ammonia, nitrate and nitrite.

You can use things like seachem prime with copper power.

I have an ammonia alert badge. I'm using a sponge filter that was in my (cycling) DT for the last week or two and I did add some Bio-spira. Plus, I plan to regularly do small water changes. So hopefully I won't have too much of an issue keeping ammonia under control.

 

[tim132]

You can use things like seachem prime with copper power. It is copper like cupramine where it is dangerous.

I didn't know that, thanks for the tip. I've always used Cupramine personally but maybe I'll pick up some copper power in the future

 

[Spare time]

I know I read in a lot of the QT threads about prime being used for ammonia. It just doesn't jive with my expierence. With a freshwater tank it was just used for removing chlorine/chloramine from tap water during water changes. But looking at the bottle it does say it 'detoxifies' ammonia, nitrate and nitrite.


I have an ammonia alert badge. I'm using a sponge filter that was in my (cycling) DT for the last week or two and I did add some Bio-spira. Plus, I plan to regularly do small water changes. So hopefully I won't have too much of an issue keeping ammonia under control.

I can say taht prime does

I didn't know that, thanks for the tip. I've always used Cupramine personally but maybe I'll pick up some copper power in the future

They both have their pros and cons

 

[Joe31415]

This might be a question for @Humblefish but can I add Copper Power *after* I have the fish in the QT? I'm reading this thread, and he makes a point of saying "QT is predosed [with copper]". Can I just bump it up a half ppm or so a day until I get to 1.5ppm and then start the countdown?