Copper level drop after fish died

Rachelle G

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Hello, I currently have 4 fish in QT, believe they had ich on three of them but one looked like velvet (too many spots to count). I am checking my copper level in the morning and night. The other three fish a sail fin tang, porcupine puffer and domino damsel are still going good and eating. Last night (10pm) when I measured the copper (using Cupramine and Hanna Checker) it measured .42. This morning I woke up and the one died (the one I suspected velvet), I immediately removed him and tested the copper level again and now it reads .27. If he died during the night would he soak up some of the copper? I am afraid to add any. I plan on doing my daily water change but unsure what level copper to put it at now. Has anyone come across this? Any advice would be helpful. Treatment has been going on for four days as of today. I was raising the copper level up slowly since I began as not to shock the fish.
 

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Hello, I currently have 4 fish in QT, believe they had ich on three of them but one looked like velvet (too many spots to count). I am checking my copper level in the morning and night. The other three fish a sail fin tang, porcupine puffer and domino damsel are still going good and eating. Last night (10pm) when I measured the copper (using Cupramine and Hanna Checker) it measured .42. This morning I woke up and the one died (the one I suspected velvet), I immediately removed him and tested the copper level again and now it reads .27. If he died during the night would he soak up some of the copper? I am afraid to add any. I plan on doing my daily water change but unsure what level copper to put it at now. Has anyone come across this? Any advice would be helpful. Treatment has been going on for four days as of today. I was raising the copper level up slowly since I began as not to shock the fish.
I use copper power and run my copper level at 1.75-2.0 maybe someone else can chime in. Bump
 
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Rachelle G

Rachelle G

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Oh, I should mention, I tested two times this morning and got the same result both times .27 wanted to make sure I didn't mess the test up. The only things in my QT is two pieces of PVC, two filters (one internal one HOB) not using any carbon only plain filters (hence the daily water change for ammonia) one small power head to help aid in oxygen level. So not sure what would cause the big drop in copper unless it was the dead fish? He was about 5 inches in size.
 

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Fish can absorb copper ions. Depending on the overall size of the fish: length, width, height, thickness, body shape, etc. could potentially absorb copper. Cupramine has a very small dose and an even smaller therapeutic range. So it's possible. I'd suggest making very small doses and then test again. Since you were at .42 when this all started, you were a bit under the target of 0.50, this allows you the opportunity to add a small amount without over dosing.

More info on copper absorption of Ich and fish: https://aem.asm.org/content/aem/early/2018/11/12/AEM.01982-18.full.pdf
 
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Rachelle G

Rachelle G

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Fish can absorb copper ions. Depending on the overall size of the fish: length, width, height, thickness, body shape, etc. could potentially absorb copper. Cupramine has a very small dose and an even smaller therapeutic range. So it's possible. I'd suggest making very small doses and then test again. Since you were at .42 when this all started, you were a bit under the target of 0.50, this allows you the opportunity to add a small amount without over dosing.

More info on copper absorption of Ich and fish: https://aem.asm.org/content/aem/early/2018/11/12/AEM.01982-18.full.pdf
Thank you for the information. I guess the sadness of the loss and then the crazy change from .42 to .27 really caught me off guard. It flashed in my mind that my Hanna Checker was not accurate and I didn't want to over do the copper. I was adding a couple drops every 12 hours to slowly bring it up. Guess I have to start it again due to the large drop. He was a bit bigger than the rest of my fish so I guess he soaked it up. Again thank you so very much!!! I am going to take one more reading and then start my slow ramp up to the .5
 
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Rachelle G

Rachelle G

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Thank you for the information. I guess the sadness of the loss and then the crazy change from .42 to .27 really caught me off guard. It flashed in my mind that my Hanna Checker was not accurate and I didn't want to over do the copper. I was adding a couple drops every 12 hours to slowly bring it up. Guess I have to start it again due to the large drop. He was a bit bigger than the rest of my fish so I guess he soaked it up. Again thank you so very much!!! I am going to take one more reading and then start my slow ramp up to the .5
@Big G....now it looks as if the porcupine puffer has cloudy eyes. What should I do since the copper treatment has not been completed. I know the cupramine says not to mix with other medications. His breathing is slow and heavy...does he have a chance?
 
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Rachelle G

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I should mention what I have on hand other than Cupramine. I have Melafix, PraziPro, Fish Sulfa Forte (Sulfamethoxazole/Trimethoprim), and Fish Flox (Ciprofloxacin)
 

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I should mention what I have on hand other than Cupramine. I have Melafix, PraziPro, Fish Sulfa Forte (Sulfamethoxazole/Trimethoprim), and Fish Flox (Ciprofloxacin)
Of the meds you have on hand, the Cipro used in a bath is excellent. Highly recommend it for bacterial infections.
(Best administered via a 1-hour bath treatment. Dosage is high: 250mg per gal. Repeat every 24 hours for 7 days.). Aerate during and heat if necessary during the bath.

Do not use sulfa based meds with copper. It can greatly increase the toxicity of the copper.
 
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Rachelle G

Rachelle G

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Of the meds you have on hand, the Cipro used in a bath is excellent. Highly recommend it for bacterial infections.
(Best administered via a 1-hour bath treatment. Dosage is high: 250mg per gal. Repeat every 24 hours for 7 days.). Aerate during and heat if necessary during the bath.

Do not use sulfa based meds with copper. It can greatly increase the toxicity of the copper.
Thank you again for the advice and information. That's why I am so glad I signed up for this site. I know I can get good information from all your experiences. Will start immediately. Just got home from work.
 
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Rachelle G

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@ Big G, can you advise on what other meds I should have on hand. I want to make sure I am prepared for any future problems. Creating my fishy med cabinet.
 

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If you have the equipment, you could instead of copper, use the tank transfer method. There is a great thread about it over in the Disease and Treatment section. Then you could use whatever meds you wanted to.

Best of luck with your fish!

Also, I do believe the Hanna Copper checker has an accuracy of +/-0.05 as well.
 
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Rachelle G

Rachelle G

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If you have the equipment, you could instead of copper, use the tank transfer method. There is a great thread about it over in the Disease and Treatment section. Then you could use whatever meds you wanted to.

Best of luck with your fish!

Also, I do believe the Hanna Copper checker has an accuracy of +/-0.05 as well.
Yes, I read about that method when looking up treatment methods. I am in the process of getting more equipment so I am prepared. Along with having more meds on hand. I love my tanks and my fish and hate to see any of them suffer. I have been lucky up until now with no issues, and now I am getting a crash corse. I love this hobby and I will not let some setbacks change that. I will learn and steam ahead.
 

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