Copper treatment in QT

Mielo

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After day 23 in QT with my copper at a relatively constant .25 (as recommended by the Aquasonic Oodonex) it appears that my fish are experiencing a reinfestation of Velvet or Ich especially my blue tang. See pic attached.

The reinfestation appears to be even worse than it was to start with. I am giving the my Blue Tang a freshwater baths almost every second day to give him some relief as he is in a lot of discomfort.

Checking copper twice a day using the Hanna HR, the copper sometimes went up to .30 and the lowest it ever dropped was .21. I even do 10% daily water changes and replenished the copper after every change.

I am baffled now, as I would of thought that the medication would of broken the parasites cycle by now (after 23 days of copper medication) by killing the dinospores or theronts and prevented a reinfestation. Am I missing something….should I increase the copper levels or should I consider using a different copper medication.

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Bfragale

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I usually use copper power at 2.5ppm. Not sure about other copper treatments.

Also I could be bacterial infection instead of or as well as ick, this could be from the wound where the ick was. May want to look into medicated foods or treatment for the bacterial infection. Copper doesn’t treat bacterial infections. And some treatments are not good to do with the copper so it may take some research but worth a shot.

good luck my friend. Keep you the effort, your hippo is your biggest cheerleader. Take care
 
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What type of copper were you using. I'm currently using cupramine and my understanding was that the therapeutic concentration is .5. I though it wasn't effect until at least .4.
Aquasonic Oodonex is what I am using and I initially thought that the copper levels were low compared to others but eben the LFS I bought it from recommended .25ppm.
I cannot get Cupramine as its no longer available in Australia.
 

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Mielo

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I usually use copper power at 2.5ppm. Not sure about other copper treatments.

Also I could be bacterial infection instead of or as well as ick, this could be from the wound where the ick was. May want to look into medicated foods or treatment for the bacterial infection. Copper doesn’t treat bacterial infections. And some treatments are not good to do with the copper so it may take some research but worth a shot.

good luck my friend. Keep you the effort, your hippo is your biggest cheerleader. Take care
I actually do own API Melafix (Anti bacterial remedy). Could I use that in combination with the copper in the qt tank?
 
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Aquasonic Oodonex is what I am using and I initially thought that the copper levels were low compared to others but eben the LFS I bought it from recommended .25ppm.
I cannot get Cupramine as its no longer available in Australia.
Ok sorry I didn't realize that was a brand of copper treatment. It looks like a low treatment level but since I'm not familiar with the brand I have no idea.
Good luck with your tang.
 
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I believe Melafix is all natural and I would guess can be combined with copper but I have no personal experience. I would make sure the qt tank has a lot of Of air exchange- power head at surface or air stone
MT QT is a ReadSea 250 and I do have a big airstone in the back sump and the powerheads are all directed to the surface to agitate the surface.

Anyone else have any experience using Melafix with Copper in a QT?
 

Jay Hemdal

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Aquasonic Oodonex is what I am using and I initially thought that the copper levels were low compared to others but eben the LFS I bought it from recommended .25ppm.
I cannot get Cupramine as its no longer available in Australia.
That copper product is copper sulfate/citric acid. I used to make my own 15+ years ago. It is more toxic to fish that the newer organically bound copper products: Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power.

I wonder if the Hanna HR copper test (used for the above mentioned copper products) is sensitive enough to measure this product, since it is dosed at about 10% of their rate. Isn't there a Hanna LR kit?

If it is a breakthrough protozoan infection, the FW dips won't help much, the trophonts of ich or velvet are pretty deep-seated.

What other fish are in with it?
Do they show any symptoms?
Is this fish still eating?

Jay
 
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Hi Jay, The fish currently with him in the 250lt tank is a yellow tang two foxfaces, 2 occy clowns, lawnmower Blenny and 6 small pajama cardinals.

The Foxfaces, lawnmower blenny, cardinals and clowns show absolutely no symptoms whatsoever and are eating well.

The Yellow tang however displayed the similar symptoms the blue tang is now at the beginning of the treatment and did not eat for over a week but started eating after day 11 of the copper treatment and cleared up nicely. I did however notice recently that she is now again starting to rub/flick against the pvc.

The blue tang was the same, the only difference is that he never stopped eating throughout snd is still eating even in his condition.

I have been running a seperate 70lt tank in conjunction with the qt (copperfree) which I am planning to move the occys, lawmower blenny and 6 cardinals this weekend and observe them for another 14 days copper free.

My plan with the existing 250lt qt is to run its 30 day copper course at therapeutic level .25ppm and then reduce copper to zero and then observe the other fish for 14 days copper free.

What are your thoughts on this plan of action Jay? Your feedback is greatly appreciated!
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hi Jay, The fish currently with him in the 250lt tank is a yellow tang two foxfaces, 2 occy clowns, lawnmower Blenny and 6 small pajama cardinals.

The Foxfaces, lawnmower blenny, cardinals and clowns show absolutely no symptoms whatsoever and are eating well.

The Yellow tang however displayed the similar symptoms the blue tang is now at the beginning of the treatment and did not eat for over a week but started eating after day 11 of the copper treatment and cleared up nicely. I did however notice recently that she is now again starting to rub/flick against the pvc.

The blue tang was the same, the only difference is that he never stopped eating throughout snd is still eating even in his condition.

I have been running a seperate 70lt tank in conjunction with the qt (copperfree) which I am planning to move the occys, lawmower blenny and 6 cardinals this weekend and observe them for another 14 days copper free.

My plan with the existing 250lt qt is to run its 30 day copper course at therapeutic level .25ppm and then reduce copper to zero and then observe the other fish for 14 days copper free.

What are your thoughts on this plan of action Jay? Your feedback is greatly appreciated!
The plan sounds fine except that you have the symptomatic tang, and I don’t see a clear treatment for it. You could move it out of copper, just to see how it reacts. Another option would be to treat all of the fish with praziquantel for flukes. The FW dips you gave should have given partial relief for flukes though, that’s why I didn’t go right to that diagnosis.
Jay
 
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The plan sounds fine except that you have the symptomatic tang, and I don’t see a clear treatment for it. You could move it out of copper, just to see how it reacts. Another option would be to treat all of the fish with praziquantel for flukes. The FW dips you gave should have given partial relief for flukes though, that’s why I didn’t go right to that diagnosis.
Jay
I am planning to include the tang in the 30 day copper treatment and sincerley hope he pulls through. I will treat all the fish with Praziquantel for flukes during the observation period after copper has been removed from the water.

Any other suggestions/feedback would be greatly appreciated
 
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Hi Jay. Slight change in plans. I am weaning all the fish off the copper treatment today…5 days short of the 30 day mark. I think the tang is starting to get a bacterial infection so I want to treat with Melafix asap.

I will move the smaller fish i.e 2 occys, 6 cardinals & lawnmower blenny to the 20g tank to reduce the bioload on the 66g tank.

Once the melafix has run its 7 day course, I will start with the prazi treatment.

what are your thoyghts?
 
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Hi jay. Please see pic attached of my blue tang…… I am really getting worried as I think he has a bacterial infection as well on his left side.
 

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Jay Hemdal

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Hi jay. Please see pic attached of my blue tang…… I am really getting worried as I think he has a bacterial infection as well on his left side.
That looks pretty severe. It is possible this is a secondary bacterial infection caused by the ich parasite damage. I’m not a fan of melafix for serious bacterial infections, it is more of a tonic, not a true antibiotic. If the fish is in a treatment tank, why not dose it with a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic such as Neoplex?
Jay
 
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That looks pretty severe. It is possible this is a secondary bacterial infection caused by the ich parasite damage. I’m not a fan of melafix for serious bacterial infections, it is more of a tonic, not a true antibiotic. If the fish is in a treatment tank, why not dose it with a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic such as Neoplex?
Jay
I agree that the bacterial infection is most probably secondary and thus stopping the cooper treatment as I believe that a combination of copper and bacterial medication is not recommended. What are your thoughts on this?

I suggested Melafix as I do have it at hand and am quite restricted with the medications available in Australia. I will check how readily available Neoplex is, otherwise other antibiotics available here is aquasonic bactonex or Blue planet tri sulfa. Any feedback on these medications or what specific ingredients should I look for in an antibiotic?

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Its greatly appreciated Jay!
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Yes, I prefer not to dose anti-protozoans along with antibiotics, but if the fish have both issues and are in a serious way, you might need to do so.
Jay
 
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Yes, I prefer not to dose anti-protozoans along with antibiotics, but if the fish have both issues and are in a serious way, you might need to do so.
Jay
I found Blue Planet Aquaricycline Tablets which is a broad spectrum antibiotic. In tour opinion, would this one help my blue tang?
 

Jay Hemdal

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I found Blue Planet Aquaricycline Tablets which is a broad spectrum antibiotic. In tour opinion, would this one help my blue tang?
If that contains tetracycline, then no - that is deactivated by high calcium in seawater. Minocycline is a better choice for seawater.
Jay
 
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