Copperband Dying or improving?

[Treefer32]

My two year old Copperband is dying I think. Today is day 3 he won't eat. I thought he showed some improved signs. He came to check out my fingers today. The last two days he wouldn't swim up to me at all. He looked at the food and swam in a circle then swam away.

I noticed him hanging out on one end of the tank. He doesn't actively swim anywhere or respond to anything. It's like he goes to sleep then shakes himself awake. I noticed when he swims by his reflection in the glass he responds like normal. But, then starts to swim vertical and almost intentionally swims upside down but rights himself right away. Then swims normal for a few minutes then gets tired and starts to swim weird. I see no visible injuries to his body, no visible signs of infections or anything on his gills.

No other fish are showing signs of issues. PH is 8.1 to 8.33. Tank is a total of 4 years old (350 gallons). Calibrated refrac indicates salinity at what it's been at for a couple years now, 1.025. I'm in need of a water change (phosphates at .11 - .19 this week.) Higher than i'd like, but managed.

There's a lot of cyano growing, probably due to the increased vodka dosing to keep phosphates under control.

No other fish showing signs of any issues. I could probably net him and put him in a QT holding tank with tank water. But, not sure what to do from there. And if he's sick is there really anything that would do to save him. . . He's interested in food more than he has been the last two days. I saw him grab one piece of food out of the water and his beak chomped it. I definitely don't think he's feeling good. It's like he falls asleep then wakes up every few minutes. . .

The only hope is he swims up to me if I come to the glass. So, he still sees ok and controls his swimming 90% of the time. I'm afraid if he doesn't start eating more soon he won't make it. 3 days is a long time for a fish that needs to constantly eat...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My two year old Copperband is dying I think. Today is day 3 he won't eat. I thought he showed some improved signs. He came to check out my fingers today. The last two days he wouldn't swim up to me at all. He looked at the food and swam in a circle then swam away.

I noticed him hanging out on one end of the tank. He doesn't actively swim anywhere or respond to anything. It's like he goes to sleep then shakes himself awake. I noticed when he swims by his reflection in the glass he responds like normal. But, then starts to swim vertical and almost intentionally swims upside down but rights himself right away. Then swims normal for a few minutes then gets tired and starts to swim weird. I see no visible injuries to his body, no visible signs of infections or anything on his gills.

No other fish are showing signs of issues. PH is 8.1 to 8.33. Tank is a total of 4 years old (350 gallons). Calibrated refrac indicates salinity at what it's been at for a couple years now, 1.025. I'm in need of a water change (phosphates at .11 - .19 this week.) Higher than i'd like, but managed.

There's a lot of cyano growing, probably due to the increased vodka dosing to keep phosphates under control.

No other fish showing signs of any issues. I could probably net him and put him in a QT holding tank with tank water. But, not sure what to do from there. And if he's sick is there really anything that would do to save him. . . He's interested in food more than he has been the last two days. I saw him grab one piece of food out of the water and his beak chomped it. I definitely don't think he's feeling good. It's like he falls asleep then wakes up every few minutes. . .

The only hope is he swims up to me if I come to the glass. So, he still sees ok and controls his swimming 90% of the time. I'm afraid if he doesn't start eating more soon he won't make it. 3 days is a long time for a fish that needs to constantly eat...

Can you post a short video?
Based on the circumstances, I doubt this is a contagious issue, and therefore isn’t easily treated.
Jay

 

[Treefer32]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal I agree. I'm observing the CBB at night as well, as he's usually been fairly active nocturnally. Last night and now this morning, I see him hunting the rocks and munching on something. He attacks the nooks and crannies and even the glass. He may be getting his fill on alternate foods.

So, my frozen food I do up about 12 pounds home ground scallops, shrimp, and tuna. (All raw and kept frozen). I mix it with nori, fish eggs from brs, freeze dried mysis, 2 bottles of selcon, max aminos, and some pellets and flake. I use a cheese grater and package it into one gallon freezer bags (flattened) and throw in the freezer. I get about 12 16 oz bags that last me around 9-10 months. I'm on the last two bags. . .

I thought being frozen it would last a year. Heck I've eaten meat frozen for a year. Is it possible he's just a food snob... He's telling me my food is too old?

My other fish still go at it, possibly because it's the only food... Lol. But, they have no ill health issues that are visible. nor any behavioral signs. Case in point, my male anthia that had a bulged eye injury is recovering nicely, he spent the last week degassing his eye socket (air bubbles coming out.) and It's almost unnoticeable.. I attribute that to his aggressive eating behaviors and nutritional food. If Food was sub par, I'm pretty sure he would have gotten an infection and died.

I know CBBs are extremely picky, maybe he's just telling me my food is too old? This batch I made late last December between Christmas and New Years.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal I agree. I'm observing the CBB at night as well, as he's usually been fairly active nocturnally. Last night and now this morning, I see him hunting the rocks and munching on something. He attacks the nooks and crannies and even the glass. He may be getting his fill on alternate foods.

So, my frozen food I do up about 12 pounds home ground scallops, shrimp, and tuna. (All raw and kept frozen). I mix it with nori, fish eggs from brs, freeze dried mysis, 2 bottles of selcon, max aminos, and some pellets and flake. I use a cheese grater and package it into one gallon freezer bags (flattened) and throw in the freezer. I get about 12 16 oz bags that last me around 9-10 months. I'm on the last two bags. . .

I thought being frozen it would last a year. Heck I've eaten meat frozen for a year. Is it possible he's just a food snob... He's telling me my food is too old?

My other fish still go at it, possibly because it's the only food... Lol. But, they have no ill health issues that are visible. nor any behavioral signs. Case in point, my male anthia that had a bulged eye injury is recovering nicely, he spent the last week degassing his eye socket (air bubbles coming out.) and It's almost unnoticeable.. I attribute that to his aggressive eating behaviors and nutritional food. If Food was sub par, I'm pretty sure he would have gotten an infection and died.

I know CBBs are extremely picky, maybe he's just telling me my food is too old? This batch I made late last December between Christmas and New Years.

Your food is what we call the shotgun approach, kind of mix everything in and hope that all nutritional issues are dealt with. I prefer to keep mixed foods like that frozen for less than a month, or up to 6 months if kept in a -20 degree F deep freeze. This by no means you can’t store it for a year, just that it will degrade a bit, and Lise some vitamins.
Based on your fish still picking here and there, it may just be bored with the mixed food. Try some live mussels on the half shell and some frozen mysids to see if that will perk up its appetite.
Jay

 

[Treefer32]

K. I was thinking some Reef frenzy frozen food, that was his favorite before I went to home made. You're right, he may just be tired of the same thing everyday. Who knew that something with the brain the size of a sand grain could distinguish between tasty foods. Lol. With so many varieties of fish and each needing something a little different the shot gun approach is necessary. I'm working on getting a frozen food feeder so I can automate multiple feedings per day. I'm hoping it's available this year yet, but not looking good.

I'll keep monitoring. I don't know how long a fish can survive on just pods, but maybe he was lacking a nutrient he's getting from them.

My dad once had a horse that stopped eating hay and started eating the wood fence. Seriously, it ate it's way through the fence. We checked with the vet and they said put a mineral block. Not a salt block, a mineral block near its food. It went right to the block and started licking it. . . It went back to eating hay after licking the mineral block for a day. . .It stopped eating the wood timbers all together...

Animals are strange.. It's possible the CBB is just missing something and knows it can get it from other critters...

 

[MikeYasin]

K. I was thinking some Reef frenzy frozen food, that was his favorite before I went to home made. You're right, he may just be tired of the same thing everyday. Who knew that something with the brain the size of a sand grain could distinguish between tasty foods. Lol. With so many varieties of fish and each needing something a little different the shot gun approach is necessary. I'm working on getting a frozen food feeder so I can automate multiple feedings per day. I'm hoping it's available this year yet, but not looking good.

I'll keep monitoring. I don't know how long a fish can survive on just pods, but maybe he was lacking a nutrient he's getting from them.

My dad once had a horse that stopped eating hay and started eating the wood fence. Seriously, it ate it's way through the fence. We checked with the vet and they said put a mineral block. Not a salt block, a mineral block near its food. It went right to the block and started licking it. . . It went back to eating hay after licking the mineral block for a day. . .It stopped eating the wood timbers all together...

Animals are strange.. It's possible the CBB is just missing something and knows it can get it from other critters...

My CBB would only eat PE Mysis for the first few months. Everyone else got Reef Frenzy. I slowly began mixing the two, the CBB now eats everything out of the Mysis/Reef Frenzy mix.

Good luck - CBBs are amazing fish!

 

[Treefer32]

My CBB would only eat PE Mysis for the first few months. Everyone else got Reef Frenzy. I slowly began mixing the two, the CBB now eats everything out of the Mysis/Reef Frenzy mix.

Good luck - CBBs are amazing fish!

I know, I love my CBB. He loves me too. Swims up to me all the time and just really peaceful fish. So, laid back. I've had him eating out of my hand for two years. Now he's rejecting my food. I'll have to pick up some frozen mysis locally. No idea where to get live mussels though. P.s. I hate handling sea food! I don't know if I'm allergic or not, but I can't eat any of it. . . So, the more processed it is the easier it is for me to deal with. LOL.

 

[alton]

Try Spiralina Brine and or check for voltage in the tank. Something has changed for your CBB to quit eating. I lost mine after 13 years of being my best fish.

 

[Phlynamjax]

Any recent addition or changes to your tank?

 

[Treefer32]

Any recent addition or changes to your tank?

I had to redo the plumbing on my return pump. I three spots leaking, and I thought the return pump was dead... Turns out it had a plastic cap and two zip ties in the impellor. It stalled the pump and triggered my GFCI. I had a backup reeflo pump on my water changing station, so I swapped them out. And now that pump is working great. I had two other leaks. Had to replace a gasket on a union and used silicone grease on that. Then found a gap on the outside where a coupler connected with a spaflex. I filled the gap with the BRS superglue gel. Let that dry, then filled the outside with PVC Glue to ensure it was sealed. All leaks were stopped and had no further issues. The sump was down for 8 hours. We had emptied half it out to work on the return pump. Oh and replaced the bulkhead on the sump. The gasket was leaking significantly there as well.

After everything was down for 8-9 hours I had it all back and operational and refilled the sump with fresh salt water at the same salinity the rest of the tank was from my water changing station.

The water remaining in the sump had gotten pretty gross in the 8 hours with some sand that had settled in the sump being stirred up. It's possible that some stuff (sponges and other critters) had died off in the sump in the mean time. 3-4 days after redoing the sump and getting everything back on track. (That was last Thursday) the CBB stopped eating. Phosphates went from .04 ppm to .19 ppm. Maybe there was a mini cycle? Or loss of oxygen? Temp got down to 75. (I've had temp down to 70 with no adverse effects.)

I had two gyres and two mp40s running the entire time. The gyres are at the surface of the tank causing surface agitation constantly.

A quick update, I just went to feed. And the CBB was excitedly following me around the tank. He'd follow my finger and was coming to the surface to get food from me. So, I got some food and fed and he agressively ate my frozen food...

So, as my post title says I don't know if he's getting worse or better, I think he's almost out of the woods and getting better... Maybe there was something disturbed in the sump that he didn't like. A a couple towels may have made it into the sump water as well. We had tight quarters and a lot of water to deal with and ended up dropping several towels in the sump. I never thought anything of it, but they were towels washed in laundry detergent? Maybe the detergent got into the display. I know laundry detergent has a lot of phosphates. Maybe poisoning from detergent? I don't know how much would have to leach into the water for it decrease quality in 350-400 gallons of system volume.

Whether it was the towels, the sump being disturbed, the display being offline for 8-9 hours, I don't know, but the CBB is near a full recovery as of today back to eating aggressively from my hands. No corals or other fish were disturbed at all that I can visibly tell anyways. . .

I'm planning a 33% water change today or tomorrow. So, hopefully that helps in whatever way shape or form.