Copperband issues: a white spot, and "black ich" or what?

[foxt]

Fish #4 in QT, and on my sick list, is a CBB. This fish came in a couple of days ago, and has been eating and behaving perfectly. There are four fish in this tank: longnose, cbb, diamond goby, and very small naso. They all came in together, from the same supplier, and I have 7 QT / HT tanks running at the moment so I took the risk to QT them together. Water parameters look ok, although ammonia might have been slightly elevated this morning. The 40g QT was seeded with a chunk of live rock, and has a HOB filter running, but the bioload may be too large for it at this point, and I am monitoring ammonia and doing 25% water changes.

I thought I noticed something, maybe, on the cbb body yesterday, but today it is dramatically different - in two places, and in two different ways. I am guessing that one of these might be lympho? Does it grow that fast? And searches for "black spots" for the other issue take me to "black ich", but this doesn't look like that.

First, the black spots - the only place they exist is on the right pectoral fin. What is this?

Next up, the white spot. Not looking parasitic to me, so is it lympho? Does it grow that fast (overnight?). Or possibly an injury?

 

[foxt]

Oh, and if I am going to keep taking pictures of sick fish to ask for help, I am seriously going to need to get a better camera ...

 

[ngoodermuth]

The spots on the fin don't look like black ich to me either, could be maybe the start of something bacterial, or nothing. I would probably just keep an eye on it for now.

The white bump could be lymph, it's certainly too big for ich or velvet. It can show up rather quickly, and will usually get a bit worse before it gets better.

 

[Humblefish]

Butterflies are very prone to infection. At the very least, I think I would give him an acriflavine bath: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acriflavine.282887/

If it starts to turn red, dose antibiotics ASAP ... preferably, NFG.

 

[foxt]

Ok, acriflavine bath it is.

I have been unable to find a source for NFG, unless I buy 250 grams from NFP, which will last me a lifetime and then some. Does anyone know where to buy smaller quantities?

I've been using furan-2/kanaplex/metro lately on a couple of other QT cases, and it's done the job as long as I am quick to react. Since I may be ahead of the game with this fish, I am tempted to just start this combo, but since it is a CBB, I am leery of messing with it unless I have to. Would NFG have the same potential to suppress appetite as the other mix?

 

[Humblefish]

Would NFG have the same potential to suppress appetite as the other mix?

All antibiotics are notorious for suppressing appetite, depleting oxygen from the water, etc.

 

[foxt]

Ok, looks like there is a new spot now (about 12 hours later). Sorry for the fuzzy pictures. I am doing the acriflavine bath as I type, but I'm concerned about the speed of growth / spread on this. It doesn't look like ich, brook, or velvet - but could it be uronema?

 

[foxt]

I take it back, a little! Looking back over the pictures from earlier today, I noticed that there was a bit of a red spot in the location of that second white spot now, the one down by the pelvic fin. I guess I missed it before because it wasn't as pronounced, and there wasn't anything protruding, just a slight red coloration. You can see it from the earlier picture:

 

[melypr1985]

I take it back, a little! Looking back over the pictures from earlier today, I noticed that there was a bit of a red spot in the location of that second white spot now, the one down by the pelvic fin. I guess I missed it before because it wasn't as pronounced, and there wasn't anything protruding, just a slight red coloration. You can see it from the earlier picture:

Every time I see a CBB with this it turns into an infection. If you can't get the preferred NGP then go with the triple threat antibiotics (metro, kanaplex, furan2).

 

[foxt]

I have not been able to find a small quantity of NGP for sale (been looking a few days), and should get the meds started now so will start the kanaplex/furan-2/metro after the fish comes out of the acriflavine bath.

Any idea what it is? Just an infection? The fish does do a strange headshake once in a while, but I think it corresponds to when I approach the tank, and it's actually begging for food. Aside from that, it's eating and behaving healthy. I did not dip for flukes, and now that I have done the acriflavine bath, I don't want to follow that with FW dip, so it will have to wait until tomorrow ...

 

[melypr1985]

Any idea what it is? Just an infection? The fish does do a strange headshake once in a while

I'm not sure what bacteria it is, or if it's something else entirely that ends up with a secondary bacterial infection. Since I don't have a microscope handy, I can't do anything other than share my experience. I've seen this in something like 1/4 of the CBB's that I've gotten into the shop. Sometimes, it's a slow progression, and sometimes it's quick. Either way it seems to always end in infection.

 

[foxt]

OK, thanks for the info.

Fish is out of acriflavine, and now in QT with the kanaplex/furan-2/metro cocktail with an airstone running in addition to the HOB.

Hopefully it will work out for the best.

 

[foxt]

This morning, the top white spot is gone, but the bottom condition looks about the same .... will continue with meds and good food ...

 

[Humblefish]

This morning, the top white spot is gone, but the bottom condition looks about the same .... will continue with meds and good food ...

Keep pounding it with antibiotics. Any red spot seen on a butterflyfish needs to be taken very seriously.

 

[foxt]

Thanks. Does the fact that the other white spot is gone give any clue as to what it was/is? And should I do another acriflavine bath today?

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks. Does the fact that the other white spot is gone give any clue as to what it was/is? And should I do another acriflavine bath today?

No way to be sure without a skin scrape/scope ID, but my best guess is the beginnings of a vibrio-like infection.

 

[foxt]

The first white spot is back again this evening! And the second spot seems a little larger. On day 3 of kana/furan/metro. Any ideas why that spot seems to be playing peekaboo?

 

[foxt]

Ok, today, the white spots are "gone", and there is some sort of irregularity on the parts of the skin where they were - this seems to be presenting in a different way each new day. Today is day #4 of kanaplex/furan-2/metro. Fish is still eating aggressively, begs for food when I stand in front of the tank!

 

[Humblefish]

I would keep pounding it with the antibiotics. Hopefully the infection is receding.

 

[foxt]

Will do ...