Could this be a big part of my problem with LPS

BRS

Susan Edwards

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
3,504
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Tracy, California
I've been reading up on corals to plan my new tank and came across an article that talked how leather's do not mix well with LPS due to toxins: terpenes.
I have a huge monster blue toadstool. My 2 clowns host it, meaning it is probably always on the irritated side. Esp as it doesn't extend those flower-like tentacles at the end of it's tentacles. Clowns even laid eggs on its stalk. In the old tank, when it was much smaller, it used to fully extend.

Every LPS/SPS I try to put in the tank dies. Every, single one. Doesn't matter where I put it. I had the ICP water test and nothing there. Parameters good--better than a previous tank even that even the LPS thrived. Only softies are surviving in my tank. I thought a previous noxious paint primer affected my system (12/2018) where I lost 3/4 of fish and corals. But general consensus is prob. not affecting now.

So is this giant leather my problem? Is it putting out toxins that only my few softies can tolerate? I run carbon, boyds elite, purigen, phosguard etc.

It is so big, it is on 2 rocks and still too heavy! I think the base is bigger than I can grip.
If it is, I don't want it in my new tank! Here are some pics. It takes up the entire middle of my 125 72" tank.


20210702_144325.jpg

these show the base of this coral. It goes sideways like a tuba lol's

20210702_144303.jpg
20210702_144311.jpg
20210702_144312.jpg
20210702_144318.jpg
20210629_203244.jpg

view from March
20210321_122911.jpg

a full tank shot from march. It is much bigger now and you can see my softies. This is all that will grow in my tank! 20210321_122853.jpg
 
AS

rhostam

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
400
Reaction score
574
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Aurora
I always thought carbon cleans out the lps chemical warfare
That certainly has been the guidance I’ve always read. When my toadstool curls up to shed I always add extra fresh carbon. If I don’t, neighboring corals get frumpy. I read that the turpenes inhibit growth, though, not actively killed competing corals. Maybe there isn’t a difference. I’m considering not reforming my toadstool to my new tank, or at the very least ensure it’s downstream of flow and nearer to filtration.

I’ll be curious of the results if the OP removes his leather.
 
Last edited:
RAP
OP
Susan Edwards

Susan Edwards

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
3,504
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Tracy, California
Do you run a skimmer and carbon?
I run a skimmer and use bags of carbon and boyd's elite which is carbon and gfo. One of the threads I read from somewhere else, the op had the same issues--couldn't keep lps.

Maybe what I'll do is trim it down and put in my observation tank that has 2 white tipped leathers, 2 clowns and some damsels. I'll have to remove some rock, maybe 1 leather to make room. In a 40 gal aio this will take up the entire middle!
 
OP
Susan Edwards

Susan Edwards

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
3,504
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Tracy, California
Remove it for a while and try the other types of corals you like and compare any results.
I might try that. I wasn't going to spend anymore on corals until new tank up and running
 
OP
Susan Edwards

Susan Edwards

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
3,504
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Tracy, California
I’ve heard that before. Never seen any proof but anything is possible. Remove it and do a huge water change.
I just dosed fluconazle so might be a good time to try as I'll need to do a water change in a couple weeks an yway
 

Timfish

Crusty Old Salt
View Badges
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
1,440
Reaction score
1,947
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Austin, TX
Don't forget microbial warfare and species/genotype specific immune responses. All our animals are manipulating the microbial processes in their surface mucus layer and in the water around them. GAC and ion exchange resins (Chemi pure blue?) may help but at some point large colonies will be able to outcompete their tank mates and species/genotypes with weak immune systems may not be able to survive at all. The Strawberry Shortcake acro is one example of a species that should probably only be kept with certain other species.
 
Orphek OR3 reef aquarium LED lighting
OP
Susan Edwards

Susan Edwards

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
3,504
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Tracy, California
Don't forget microbial warfare and species/genotype specific immune responses. All our animals are manipulating the microbial processes in their surface mucus layer and in the water around them. GAC and ion exchange resins (Chemi pure blue?) may help but at some point large colonies will be able to outcompete their tank mates and species/genotypes with weak immune systems may not be able to survive at all. The Strawberry Shortcake acro is one example of a species that should probably only be kept with certain other species.
Yeah, I'm thinking this might be my issue. Hubby will be disappointed that this coral is not going in my new tank as he loves it. I do as well, but I want other corals as well!

And if it is constantly in an irritated mood due to the clowns, that might be making it worse, not just any shedding--which I've never seen it do
 

Tamberav

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
4,138
Reaction score
6,161
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Wauwatosa, WI
I keep a mixed tank with a lot of LPS and leathers and some SPS without issue and I don’t use much carbon. Just 2 table spoons inside my sock and I change it maybe every 3 months when I do a 10g water change.

I can’t say that’s not your issue but certainly has never given me any problems. I have the same corals in my 25g frag tank and that has no carbon ever.

BE103D56-D60F-49BA-ADEC-859EE88E10CC.jpeg

C3FF1BF1-9120-4D53-9D93-C761C7944813.jpeg

BBDEF320-AB1E-4C81-BB99-E60F2F346F2F.jpeg
BC4B25CE-927D-4633-B20F-D0D1435836DC.jpeg

CF581D65-91D0-4740-8FB7-4289BB6D13D0.jpeg
 

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
48,478
Reaction score
110,030
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Wisconsin - Florida in several months
For starters, If you have leather corals, this may be part of the issue. Many leather coral species produce and release toxic chemicals, called terpenes, into the water to protect themselves and to stunt the growth of other species. They also have different flow requirements than that of many LPS and SPS
 
OP
Susan Edwards

Susan Edwards

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
3,504
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Tracy, California
I keep a mixed tank with a lot of LPS and leathers and some SPS without issue and I don’t use much carbon. Just 2 table spoons inside my sock and I change it maybe every 3 months when I do a 10g water change.

I can’t say that’s not your issue but certainly has never given me any problems. I have the same corals in my 25g frag tank and that has no carbon ever.
Nice tank!! I'm wondering if it is the size in relation to the tank and the fact that the clowns keep it irritated. I also don't always get weekly water changes done. Sarcophyton is supposed to be worse with toxins than the Sinularia or the other one. I had this in my first tank, and looking back, I was starting to lose my huge headed duncan, torch and monti. Then I had my big disaster and lost most of everything in 2 tanks, so hard to tell if the leathers were already doing damage. I just assumed it was due to my disaster that struck both tanks and wiped out fish and corals.

I have always run a lot of carbon. Obviously it didn't help.

I love leathers but not this much. I do want a weeping willow though but might rethink this, or better plan for it. And keep it from getting huge and out of hand.
 

Tamberav

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
4,138
Reaction score
6,161
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Wauwatosa, WI
Nice tank!! I'm wondering if it is the size in relation to the tank and the fact that the clowns keep it irritated. I also don't always get weekly water changes done. Sarcophyton is supposed to be worse with toxins than the Sinularia or the other one. I had this in my first tank, and looking back, I was starting to lose my huge headed duncan, torch and monti. Then I had my big disaster and lost most of everything in 2 tanks, so hard to tell if the leathers were already doing damage. I just assumed it was due to my disaster that struck both tanks and wiped out fish and corals.

I have always run a lot of carbon. Obviously it didn't help.

I love leathers but not this much. I do want a weeping willow though but might rethink this, or better plan for it. And keep it from getting huge and out of hand.

I have 5 toadstools. Two XL size and a XL nepthea. The biggest toad is in the second pic and is overtaking a large part of the sand bed. My clowns do not host them or anything so maybe that is playing a part.

I don’t use much of any carbon and I don’t do much for water changes :) My tank is only 80 gallons. It isn’t known for playing by the rules though.

Hopefully when you remove it that it fixes the issue because that would be simple. That is a nice show size leather though :)

My biggest killer seems to be my plating blue sponge. Anything it touches that has a skeleton bleaches in the spot it touches or recedes.
 
Last edited:
AS
OP
Susan Edwards

Susan Edwards

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
3,504
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Tracy, California
That is a nice show size leather though :)
Want it? lol's. While sad to learn this is most likely my culprit, I'm also relieved as that coral is just too big to go into my tank, even though it is a bigger tank. Just don't want to give it that much real estate. My hubby is bummed though! I have to figure out if I can chisel off the part of rock with the palys. Those are his favorite <groan>
 

Tamberav

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
4,138
Reaction score
6,161
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Wauwatosa, WI
Haha if definitely is too big for my tank. I already had to chop some of mine off. Was good LFS store credit though.

You could always find him a new baby leather that’s not so menacing… well after the clowns get something new to host or maybe he would be fine with something else green and wavy like a torch :)
 
BRS

PICK the Most Tested & Least Tested Parameters of your Tank (Pick 2)

  • Calcium (most)

    Votes: 24 6.2%
  • Alkalinity (most)

    Votes: 275 71.2%
  • Magnesium (most)

    Votes: 3 0.8%
  • Phosphate (most)

    Votes: 24 6.2%
  • PH (most)

    Votes: 42 10.9%
  • Nitrate (most)

    Votes: 36 9.3%
  • Nitrite (most)

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • Ammonia (most)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • (least) Calcium

    Votes: 6 1.6%
  • (least) Alkalinity

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • (least) Magnesium

    Votes: 29 7.5%
  • (least) Phosphate

    Votes: 5 1.3%
  • (least) PH

    Votes: 14 3.6%
  • (least) Nitrate

    Votes: 3 0.8%
  • (least) Nitrite

    Votes: 120 31.1%
  • (least) Ammonia

    Votes: 158 40.9%
CS
Top