Could we utilise the Redfield ratio a little better in aquaria?

Status
Not open for further replies.

HomebroodExotics

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2020
Messages
932
Reaction score
1,070
Location
United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dude, just stop with your "limited" everything. We cant test for DOC so you can't say it is true, youre making assumptions without basis
Co2 is inorganic carbon. Dosed carbon sources are organic carbon. Organic carbon is limited in aquariums compared to other nutrients.
 

BeanAnimal

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
5,283
Reaction score
8,518
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Co2 is inorganic carbon. Dosed carbon sources are organic carbon. Organic carbon is limited in aquariums compared to other nutrients.
I think you may have missed the the context of the exchange here as it relates to what was said 10 pages back.

The OP appeared to not understand the difference... to the point of telling us what "C" stands for.

Of course C is for cookie... but I digress.

Cookie GIF by NBC
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
sixty_reefer

sixty_reefer

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
6,014
Reaction score
8,131
Location
The Reef
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
People will laugh but you are actually correct about this. Companies pay a lot of money to put their own users on forums to cause chaos along with other state actors as well. I applaud you for being aware of this.
It’s unfortunate as it distracts the focus of the discussion.

As far as Redfield goes my advice to you is this. I believe that redfield says that a particular phytoplankton is made up of carbon nitrogen and phosphate. If we feed our aquariums regularly we typically have an abundance of nitrogen and phosphate. But the food lacks enough carbon to provide dogestion for everything else in the aquarium. Simple carbon sources will provide a boost to the bacteria for digesting the nitrogen and phosphate in the aquarium. I hope this helps.

This is the basis of the discussion. Fully agree
 

BeanAnimal

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
5,283
Reaction score
8,518
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
As far as Redfield goes my advice to you is this. I believe that redfield says that a particular phytoplankton is made up of carbon nitrogen and phosphate. If we feed our aquariums regularly we typically have an abundance of nitrogen and phosphate. But the food lacks enough carbon to provide dogestion for everything else in the aquarium. Simple carbon sources will provide a boost to the bacteria for digesting the nitrogen and phosphate in the aquarium. I hope this helps.
The point here is that Redfield really has no relevance in context to that dosing, as there are multiple consumers that consume at various ratios. It may help if you start at the top of the thread and try to follow what has transpired.
 

HomebroodExotics

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2020
Messages
932
Reaction score
1,070
Location
United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The point here is that Redfield really has no relevance in context to that dosing, as there are multiple consumers that consume at various ratios. It may help if you start at the top of the thread and try to follow what has transpired.
It is slightly relevant. Let’s say you want to promote the growth of bacteria and phytoplankton in your aquarium. It’s important to know that these things need organic carbon for growth. Also organic carbon is usually limited in our aquariums. So dosing organic carbon is typically helpful.

I’m not sure what YOU aren’t following here?? I don’t agree with everything sixty is saying but he’s got the right idea and the spirit and everyone just seems to be intent on dumping on him instead of being helpful. Why do I need to read multiple posts of you not helping here in order to follow this conversation?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP
sixty_reefer

sixty_reefer

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
6,014
Reaction score
8,131
Location
The Reef
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The point here is that Redfield really has no relevance in context to that dosing, as there are multiple consumers that consume at various ratios. It may help if you start at the top of the thread and try to follow what has transpired.
Pease don’t take the experiment out of context, I’m only going to evaluate the saltwater nutrient consumption in my experiment.
 
OP
OP
sixty_reefer

sixty_reefer

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
6,014
Reaction score
8,131
Location
The Reef
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
How will you do that if you cant measure DOC and cant measure total Nitrogen reliably?
Im using a carbohydrate made by myself, I should have a vague idea of the carbohydrate content of that same solution being used in ppm in relation to Nitrate and phosphate.
 
OP
OP
sixty_reefer

sixty_reefer

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
6,014
Reaction score
8,131
Location
The Reef
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
You know what it is at the start maybe, but not after a certain amount has been taken up by the organisms
Initially the test will be fully dark, to evaluate the organisms demand in seawater and to remove photosynthetic interference.
I’m not using any aragonite based products in this system to remove the phosphate absorption capability of aragonite that could interfere with the results.
It’s also my intention to spread the dose of DOC over a period of 24 hours to mimic the slow release instead of doing it all in one shot.
 
Last edited:

Hats_

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 15, 2023
Messages
368
Reaction score
297
Location
Assen, Netherlands
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Initially the test will be fully dark, to evaluate the organisms demand in seawater and to remove photosynthetic interference.
I’m not using any aragonite based products in this system to remove the phosphate absorption capability of aragonite that could interfere with the results.
It’s also my intention to spread the dose of DOC over a period of 24 hours to mimic the slow release instead of doing it all in one shot.
And yet again you choose not to answer
 
OP
OP
sixty_reefer

sixty_reefer

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
6,014
Reaction score
8,131
Location
The Reef
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’ve mentioned before, I know the ppm in the DOC solution and I know the ppm in the nitrogen solution (I also will know the ppm in the phosphate solution) that should be all converted to nitrate by nitrifying bacteria and have a indication of how much nitrate is removed by bacteria or Protozoa.
Weather is just one or a collective work between bacteria and Protozoa I don’t believe it affects final results as both will be present in seawater imo.
 

Hats_

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 15, 2023
Messages
368
Reaction score
297
Location
Assen, Netherlands
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’ve mentioned before, I know the ppm in the DOC solution and I know the ppm in the nitrogen solution (I also will know the ppm in the phosphate solution) that should be all converted to nitrate by nitrifying bacteria and have a indication of how much nitrate is removed by bacteria or Protozoa.
Weather is just one or a collective work between bacteria and Protozoa I don’t believe it affects final results as both will be present in seawater imo.
So at the end you'll have no nitrate left, what then? What will you have learned? That something in the water uses nitrate as fuel, nothing else. Maybe that phosphate is used as well but we know this happens already
 
OP
OP
sixty_reefer

sixty_reefer

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
6,014
Reaction score
8,131
Location
The Reef
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So at the end you'll have no nitrate left, what then? What will you have learned? That something in the water uses nitrate as fuel, nothing else. Maybe that phosphate is used as well but we know this happens already
The target is not zero, the focus of the experiment is to evaluate the consumption of nutrients in ppm on a balanced environment by saltwater only.
Also referred many times in the hobby as import export.
From that usage in ppm I can then evaluate if certain ratios appear for saltwater nutrient demand in a tank.
From there coral and other photosynthetic organisms could be added and evaluate if the demand changes.
 
Last edited:

Garf

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
5,838
Reaction score
6,798
Location
BEEFINGHAM
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The target is not zero, the focus of the experiment is to evaluate the consumption of nutrients in ppm on a balanced environment by saltwater only.
Also referred many times in the hobby as import export.
From that usage in ppm I can then evaluate if certain ratios appear for saltwater nutrient demand in a tank.
From there coral and other photosynthetic organisms could be added and evaluate if the demand changes.
I've still no idea what you are trying to achieve but why are you using algal derived sugars? Why not plain old terrestrial sugar?
 

Hats_

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 15, 2023
Messages
368
Reaction score
297
Location
Assen, Netherlands
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The target is not zero, the focus of the experiment is to evaluate the consumption of nutrients in ppm on a balanced environment by saltwater only.
Also referred many times in the hobby as import export.
From that usage in ppm I can then evaluate if certain ratios appear for saltwater nutrient demand in a tank.
From there coral and other photosynthetic organisms could be added and evaluate if the demand changes.
I quit (again). This makes no sense and is a waste of time
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TOP 10 Trending Threads

WHEN CONSIDERING BUYING A NEW FISH, WHAT FACTOR IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TO YOU?

  • Compatibility with other members of the tank.

    Votes: 5 33.3%
  • Compatibility with the environment & size of the tank.

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • Feasibility of care & nutritional needs.

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • Temperament & common personality traits.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Common health issues & survival rates.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Roles & benefits offered to the reef.

    Votes: 6 40.0%
  • Appearance & coloration.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 0 0.0%
Back
Top