Could we utilise the Redfield ratio a little better in aquaria?

[sixty_reefer]

If youre so adamant that there is a ratio in which all nutrients get consumed, then prove it?

You can do all the theory in the world but eventually you're gonna have to test it.

I don't think you are going to like the outcome but hey prove us wrong

Are you suggesting that an environment can’t be balanced with just CNP additions? Not sure if I understand your point that you require proofing

 

[Hats_]

Are you suggesting that an environment can’t be balanced with just CNP additions? Not sure if I understand your point that you require proofing

Im suggesting that of you test it youre not going to find a predictable ratio between the 3

 

[Hats_]

Are you suggesting that an environment can’t be balanced with just CNP additions? Not sure if I understand your point that you require proofing

Also, define balance for me real quick. I would argue that no reef tank is in balance if it needs constant adjusting. Stability is a different thing

 

[sixty_reefer]

Also, define balance for me real quick. I would argue that no reef tank is in balance if it needs constant adjusting. Stability is a different thing

I believe you may be confusing balance with stability as to me balance reference to the equilibrium between several chemical and biological factors in reef aquaria and stability is usually referred to keeping those factors consistent.

 

[Hats_]

I believe you may be confusing balance with stability as to me balance reference to the equilibrium between several chemical and biological factors in reef aquaria and stability is usually referred to keeping those factors consistent.

That is my point, nutrients arent in equillibrium in a reef tank.

 

[sixty_reefer]

That is my point, nutrients arent in equillibrium in a reef tank.

Yeah but the stability is achieved with balance. And to fix the balance there’s always many alternatives available, they don’t always have to include the addition of a nutrient, balance can be fixed with a wide range of tools available to us.
Balance can be fixed by just adding GFO for example if C and N are at an equilibrium and just P out of balance.

 

[Hats_]

Yeah but the stability is achieved with balance. And to fix the balance there’s always many alternatives available, they don’t always have to include the addition of a nutrient, balance can be fixed with a wide range of tools available to us.
Balance can be fixed by just adding GFO for example if C and N are at an equilibrium and just P out of balance.

As i said before, prove it. Prove that there is aN optimal ratio that we should keep our reef tanks in. And most importantly how it is important without being able to reliably test for 2 of the 3 factors. Because right now I'm not convinced.

 

[sixty_reefer]

As i said before, prove it. Prove that there is aN optimal ratio that we should keep our reef tanks in. And most importantly how it is important without being able to reliably test for 2 of the 3 factors. Because right now I'm not convinced.

I suppose you asking me to prove that balanced nutrients and stability it’s the best environment to grow coral. Wouldn’t that be a waste of time really? As the outcome is known. Or it’s me that is not understanding the proposed test properly?

 

[Hats_]

I suppose you asking me to prove that balanced nutrients and stability it’s the best environment to grow coral. Wouldn’t that be a waste of time really? As the outcome is known. Or it’s me that is not understanding the proposed test properly?

You keep claiming there is a ratio between N:C well prove it!

 

[sixty_reefer]

You keep claiming there is a ratio between N:C well prove it!

Fair enough, what would you consider proof?

 

[Hats_]

Fair enough, what would you consider proof?

Now i have to come up with proof for your theory?

 

[Hats_]

You claim theres a ratio, an optimum if you will. Why should we chase those numbers?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Now i have to come up with proof for your theory?

As I don’t need proof, I know how it works.

 

[Hats_]

As I don’t need proof, I know how it works.

Then why make the topic??

Im done, good luck with your 'research'

 

[sixty_reefer]

You claim theres a ratio, an optimum if you will. Why should we chase those numbers?

Yes I do claim that, I also claim that that ratio is optimal if a system is in balance.
All I’m proposing is that Redfield works best during balances and stable nutrient conditions.
It’s not chasing numbers is chasing balance that is different not once I’ve mentioned that there is a optimal residual to be chased.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Then why make the topic??

Im done, good luck with your 'research'

As the title says “could we use the Redfield ratio a little better in reef aquaria” as it’s not about residual as many folks insist on. It’s about balancing nutrient import/export and stability.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

With all due respect mate, I’m not discussing that, I’ve mentioned several times that that’s a nonsense ideology.
To take this discussion further we need folks that know how to identify possible C limitation with residual Nitrate and Phosphate in reef aquaria imo.

I expect that every reef tank, whether it has any kit measurable N or P at any level (or none detected) is organic carbon limited in terms of bacterial growth.

 

[rishma]

Also, define balance for me real quick. I would argue that no reef tank is in balance if it needs constant adjusting. Stability is a different thing

I think your comment on stability is right. I used the word balance interchangeably with stability in my post because that’s how I think of it, but stability is really my goal. I feed, dose, skim, and light the tank and if I get things just right my parameters become stable where I want them….until I do a water change to correct all the things I don’t test for (or really understand). I think of it as a balancing act because over the short term (weeks/months) too much food sends the N&P up, too much carbon sends the N&P down. Heck, I use NP Bacto Balance…it’s right in the name!

But yes, stability is really what I’m trying to achieve and I know I’ll never be able to put it on auto pilot and expect everything to stay the same long term.

Anyhow, this thread is too much argument my taste. I hope your reef tanks are happy!

 

[sixty_reefer]

I expect that every reef tank, whether it has any kit measurable N or P at any level (or none detected) is organic carbon limited in terms of bacterial growth.

If there isn’t any N or P in the system we couldn’t say for sure if C is more abundant than during stable conditions without knowing the system environment.
If we talking of Ultra low residual that can only be tracked via icp, if you have an absolute zero in Nitrate or Phosphate is more than likely for the system to not be carbon limited.

If we were to compare every dinoflagellate case that we see now days, we could observe that the blooms are caused in majority of the situation for moments in time were a nutrient become limited in a particular environment.

 

[GARRIGA]

Is it possible the desire to scrub all detritus via skimmer or sock or roller mat might be causing the limitations vs letting natural decomposition thereby ensuring there's always an influx of nutrients considering we really don't know what causes an imbalance and resulting phosphates and nitrates solved via carbon dosing and GFO/LC as well as natural solutions such as algae and/or sponges?

Keeping a box of water and rocks is far removed from what is naturally occurring on an actual reef and perhaps trying to mimic that better than this craze with trying be Mr Clean.