Cyano going to cause me to shut down my tank

[Lasse]

Bacteria breakdown of detritus (organic matter) result in mineralisation of it. The organic carbon in the detritus/organic matter will be transformed into bacteria biomass and the leftover will be as inorganic carbon - CO2. The organic N - will be transformed into biomass and the leftover as inorganic NH3/NH4. The organic P will be transformed into biomass and the leftover will be as inorganic PO4. This breakdown can take place in aerobic environment or in anaerobic conditions. The anaerobic processes is rather complicated but there is parts that produce both sugars and etanol that can be used as DOC for denitrification.

How much of the detritus/organic matter will be biomass and how much will be leftover in form of CO2, NH3/NH4 and PO4. In the end nearly all of the ingoing organic carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus will be leftover in form of inorganic substances. do not forget that bacteria biomass also is organic matter and will in the end be break down too.

This processes happens everywhere where there are organic materials and microorganisms - even in small glass boxes. Aerobic bacteria is not different from you - they eat food and breath oxygen. They they also emit CO2 as we do. Where does this C come from - yes - you are right - from organic carbon in your food. CO2 will also be emitted in the anaerobic breakdown process and in its endpoint - leftovers is water, CO2 an metan gas (and minerals).

IMO - adding DOC to a saltwater tank will speed up the breakdown process of detritus/organic matter in the same way as adding sawdust to an organic compost.

I have been working with these processes in mor than 30 years in different application as fish farms, aquarium, waste water treatment plants and so on. The bacterial processes is always the same - does not differ at all.

Sincerely Lasse

Edit - change organic waste to organic matter

 

[Oshengems]

Didn’t read all the post but my cyano seems to creep every certain time in my tank, my tank has been running since March 2017 and it’s like a trend that cyanos appears every 5-6 months. I tried many things but chemiclean has been the easiest besides killing my skimmer for a few days.... and I have a Ton of stuff it does not affect it at all

Maxima clam 4”
Sps high end Cali torts, strawberry shortcake, Pac-Man acro, pink lemonade etctetc
Blastos, mushrooms, zoas, leathers all unfazed by chemiclean give it a go and if so do not use recommend used to be on the safe size I do a bit less than recommend might have to do it again soon since I see it’s been creeping up on some dead zones my sps is creating

 

[Lasse]

@Potatohead

Send in your ICP test - you will have your silica concentration in that test. Normally - IMO - there is enough of silica in a reef aquaria tank but because I want lot of sponges - I have BrightWell Aquatics Sponge Excel at home. It is very good for sponge growth. I could be one thing to test - adding silicia

Sincerely Lasse

 

[hotashes]

Didn’t read all the post but my cyano seems to creep every certain time in my tank, my tank has been running since March 2017 and it’s like a trend that cyanos appears every 5-6 months. I tried many things but chemiclean has been the easiest besides killing my skimmer for a few days.... and I have a Ton of stuff it does not affect it at all

Maxima clam 4”
Sps high end Cali torts, strawberry shortcake, Pac-Man acro, pink lemonade etctetc
Blastos, mushrooms, zoas, leathers all unfazed by chemiclean give it a go and if so do not use recommend used to be on the safe size I do a bit less than recommend might have to do it again soon since I see it’s been creeping up on some dead zones my sps is creating

Thanks, noted. Chemiclean doesn't kill clams

A.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

The word detritus have a distinct biological and ecological meaning - you just can´t make another definition of a word that have a scientific definition in a discussion. I use the normal meaning of it - it is organic waste - nothing else. If your meaning of the word should be the truth - it should only be minerals and of no harm - it could be there.

Sincerely Lasse

Ok! In Flemish we call this :"muggezifterij" May be translated as nitpicking. Off coarse it are organics ! But also inorganics!

In closed culture systems "detritus" is defined as the loosely aggregated material that accumulates. Biochemically its composition is extremely complex. it consists of both organic and inorganic substances and heterotrophic bacteria are responsible for its formation. (Spotte, S. Curator New York aquarium, 1979. Fish and invertebrate culture: water management in closed systems, 2d ed. ed. Wiley, New York. Chapter 1.5 "Mechanisms of detritus formation" page 20)
We do not just make our own definitions! But someone must! I do like to know if I am discussing about the same thing. Organic waste may decay and be mineralized, detritus is de left over after these processes.
So, we have a meaningless discussion here.

 

[Lasse]

I´m coming from the biological/ecological side and there the word mean just organic matter as it is described in the quote. Instead of discuss if Encyclopaedia Britannica or a curator in a public aquarium has the right terminology - I will not use the word detritus - I will use dead organic matter because it is what the whole discussion is about. Brandon424 want not clean away your detritus - he want to clean away my detritus - dead organic matter. I want to keep dead organic matter in my system because the bacterial/fungal breakdown is of big interest for me in order to have a stabile system.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[biophilia]

What did you use to dose silica?

I use Brightwell Aquatics "SpongExcel" once or twice a week currently (~3 drops per gallon). I'm sure it's depleted way faster than that in my tank, but I'm too lazy to test for it so play it safe.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I use Brightwell Aquatics "SpongExcel" once or twice a week currently (~3 drops per gallon). I'm sure it's depleted way faster than that in my tank, but I'm too lazy to test for it so play it safe.

Wow; 3 drops per gallon?
The directions recommend 1 drop per 20 gallon per day.
Have you any obvious diatoms ?

 

[biophilia]

Wow; 3 drops per gallon?
The directions recommend 1 drop per 20 gallon per day.
Have you any obvious diatoms ?

The directions give that as a starting dose - saying that 1 drop per 20 gallons will raise the tank by 0.01ppm, but then go on to say that maintaining 0.5-2.0ppm is a safe target for most systems and is basically in line with the concentration in natural seawater.

Anybody I've talked to that doses it in an established reef system with sponge/Porifera growth in the rockwork has found that silica depletes by as much as 1.0-1.5ppm every couple days due to being taken up by the sponges, diatoms, even gastropods. When I'm dosing 3 drops per gallon once or twice per week, I'm only bringing the tank up 0.6ppm each time -- which is likely depleted within a day or two. The only time I've seen diatom growth on the rock has been when I've dosed 3 drops per gallon multiple days in a row. At which point discontinuing the dosing for a few days cleared them up. I do find that the dusting of algae that must be scraped from the glass every 3-4 days is brown and powdery like diatoms rather than green and harder to remove as was the case before silica dosing. Not 100% sure if it's diatoms or some other species.

It's a really overlooked and under-appreciated element in reef aquaria IMO. As are the sponges it feeds! Randy Holmes-farley's article on Silica is really fascinating and worth a read for more info: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/aafeature1

 

[Scrubber_steve]

The directions give that as a starting dose - saying that 1 drop per 20 gallons will raise the tank by 0.01ppm, but then go on to say that maintaining 0.5-2.0ppm is a safe target for most systems and is basically in line with the concentration in natural seawater.

Anybody I've talked to that doses it in an established reef system with sponge/Porifera growth in the rockwork has found that silica depletes by as much as 1.0-1.5ppm every couple days due to being taken up by the sponges, diatoms, even gastropods. When I'm dosing 3 drops per gallon once or twice per week, I'm only bringing the tank up 0.6ppm each time -- which is likely depleted within a day or two. The only time I've seen diatom growth on the rock has been when I've dosed 3 drops per gallon multiple days in a row. At which point discontinuing the dosing for a few days cleared them up. I do find that the dusting of algae that must be scraped from the glass every 3-4 days is brown and powdery like diatoms rather than green and harder to remove as was the case before silica dosing. Not 100% sure if it's diatoms or some other species.

It's a really overlooked and under-appreciated element in reef aquaria IMO. As are the sponges it feeds! Randy Holmes-farley's article on Silica is really fascinating and worth a read for more info: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/aafeature1

I use it for my cryptic sponges mainly.
I don't measure for it so I'm a little cautious. Might have to up the dose going by your info, thanks

 

[Lasse]

I was up to 19 ppm (yes you read right) - 19 000 micro gram/litre - diatom like film at the windows but no diatom elsewhere. Last Triton around 0.300 ppm. And I know the reason for high silicia. It was siporax in the anaerobic parts of my DSB. Taken away them - the levels decline.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

I do find that the dusting of algae that must be scraped from the glass every 3-4 days is brown and powdery like diatoms rather than green and harder to remove as was the case before silica dosing. Not 100% sure if it's diatoms or some other species.

It was exactly the same here when my readings was between 1 - 14 ppm. Over 14 ppm - i clearly get silicia on the windows!!!

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I was up to 19 ppm (yes you read right) - 19 000 micro gram/litre

Lasse, your sponges must look like they are on steroids

 

[Lasse]

No - the odd thing was that many of them disappear when the levels hit 10 ppm. Now they are coming back.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Oly@UK]

Have you tried Dr Tim’s Marine Eco balance? I used the peroxide test and treated for a week and have not seen it again in 3months. My sand was almost completely covered. At which time I replaced the substrate. And it came almost straight back. This worked a dream. It’s meant to promote competing bacteria

 

[Oshengems]

If you

Thanks, noted. Chemiclean doesn't kill clams

A.

If you do decide to take that route this is what I do.... i have 75g plus a 20g sump so I dose for a 70g I take off the collection cup of my skimmer and leave it on I read chemiclean lowers oxygen in the tank the skimmer helps and since it overspills and and since is out of commission might as well let it add Oxygen to the tank I also add some pillow stuffing aka filter floss between my Refugium and return chamber to collect As much dead cyano as a I can replace it every 2-3 days once the dosage takes it’s toll and I see no cyano(takes about 4-5-6 days) I do a 30% water change 6-7 days after dosage, my skimmer has a tube on the collection cup so I run it and let it fome outside on a 5 gallon bucket with extra new mix of salt water to replenish what ever the skimmer takes out do this until your skimmer is close to normal operation after that it will take a few days for everything to fall back into Place. Hope this helps don’t give up on your master piece bud. Shot me a message if you have any questions

 

[Potatohead]

Have you tried Dr Tim’s Marine Eco balance? I used the peroxide test and treated for a week and have not seen it again in 3months. My sand was almost completely covered. At which time I replaced the substrate. And it came almost straight back. This worked a dream. It’s meant to promote competing bacteria

I have not but I have been adding a squirt of MB7 to the tank each once or twice a week for quite a while. Many months.

 

[BigJohnny]

I was up to 19 ppm (yes you read right) - 19 000 micro gram/litre - diatom like film at the windows but no diatom elsewhere. Last Triton around 0.300 ppm. And I know the reason for high silicia. It was siporax in the anaerobic parts of my DSB. Taken away them - the levels decline.

Sincerely Lasse

Did you notice a rise in nitrate after removing the siporax?

 

[BigJohnny]

Have you tried Dr Tim’s Marine Eco balance? I used the peroxide test and treated for a week and have not seen it again in 3months. My sand was almost completely covered. At which time I replaced the substrate. And it came almost straight back. This worked a dream. It’s meant to promote competing bacteria

What did the peroxide test reveal it was, cyano not spirulina?

 

[Lasse]

Did you notice a rise in nitrate after removing the siporax?

Nope - still have the reversed flow remote deep sand bed - only difference - no siporax in the sandbed

Sincerely Lasse