Cyano? Or Dino?

[NickyReefs]

I saw you said it gets worse with water changes. Are you using 0 TDS RODI water for your water changes? Maybe your water change water is what is feeding it. If your on facebook you should join Macks Reef support group, tons of good info on fighting all of this type of thing.

#1 thing is ID what you have, get a microscope so you can figure out what you are fighting.

Hey, thanks for the reply! I do not have a tds meter but I've replaced all 4 of my rodi systems filters about 2 - 3 months ago. At this point I'm completely at a loss on what to do and thinking about just selling the tank. I've done all the coffe filter/h202 tests.. 3 rounds of redslime remover, 2 3 day total blackout outs and a 5 day total blackout with h202 dosing and bacteria dosing, UV steralizer and this stuff has not slowed down in the slightest bit.

Parameters been checking daily

Alk 9.1
Cal 405
Mag 1320
Nitrate 7
Phos. 0.08

As of today I can see thick patches starting to form, and as for the rest of the sanded I can see slowly Starting to get worse. I'm still dosing MB7 during the day. My 2 gyres alternate every 30 seconds and this stuff just whips around in the flow. Lights run 50% blue only now for a very short period. The cost of daily testing is just not possible anymore. I've exhausted every option as far as fighting this and it hasn't changed a thing. I'm at a loss man. Me and the wife just considering giving up as per maybee this isent for us. Sad

 

[NickyReefs]

Here is some pictures under all whites... this stuff has airbubbles in it and it's very brown and slimey in texture. Very hard to capture it with pictures but I did my best. Sanded was siphoned 2 days ago and was spotless and this is how fast it grows back.

 

[jjj5311]

Looks like dinos to me, it’s worth it to get the microscope and figure out exactly what you have.

Your tank looks amazing btw don’t let this discourage you too much!

 

[jjj5311]

Mack’s reef guide

not sure if you’ll be able to view or not but this is a great group on Facebook that should be able to help.

 

[NickyReefs]

Looks like dinos to me, it’s worth it to get the microscope and figure out exactly what you have.

Your tank looks amazing btw don’t let this discourage you too much!

Thanks so much I appreciate it!! I couldn't open the pdf unfortunately. I'm gonna try to join the Facebook group tonight. It's just so exhausting trying every option with 0 impact.

 

[vetteguy53081]

One more question...should I turn off my GFO reactor? Sorry if I'm hijacking ....

You can stop GFO for now

 

[NickyReefs]

Update 1/25

Stuff is spreading once again rapidly... running out of options... any one have any insight?

 

[NickyReefs]

Bump, things still getting worse. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[jjj5311]

Try this treatment?
My tank is currently looking about same as yours I think this is the way I’m gonna try

 

[damsels are not mean]

If it's only on the sand, maybe the sand is the problem? Is that live sand? Did you rinse before use? What happens if you just take as much of the sand out as possible?

 

[NickyReefs]

If it's only on the sand, maybe the sand is the problem? Is that live sand? Did you rinse before use? What happens if you just take as much of the sand out as possible?

It's live sand, and yess it's on sand mostly, but beginning to go up the glass and rocks now. Just did another siphon and 5 gall water change. It's the same sand I started the tank with. How can the sand be the issue? Can you elaborate some more? Parameters are still very well in check.

 

[damsels are not mean]

It's live sand, and yess it's on sand mostly, but beginning to go up the glass and rocks now. Just did another siphon and 5 gall water change. It's the same sand I started the tank with. How can the sand be the issue? Can you elaborate some more? Parameters are still very well in check.

Cyano blooms and doesn't go away around areas that are dirty and full of decaying matter.e The decay does not register on tests because the cyano is uptaking those nutrients. Small amounts growing here or there and receding is somewhat normal even in an old system, but to get to the root of this tank-wide issue you either need to clean the sand bed (like potentially rinse it outside of the tank or replace it) OR just keep siphoning until it exhausts whatever resource it is feeding off of. It sort of is a nutrient issue, but not an issue of nutrients suspended in water. Theoretically, if you just let it keep growing for a while without any new food it would boom and bust, but in a running tank that's not practical. Option 2 will solve this but it may take a while.

This is why chemical treatments and nutrient control won't work. It's not something you're putting in, it's that the sand was full of life that died in the bag at petco or whatever warehouse it was in and now all that decaying matter is a resource leaching ammonia into the tank which is being utilized by cyano before it enters the water column and gets used by nitrobacter (the cycle bacteria that eats ammonia).

 

[jjj5311]

Cyano blooms and doesn't go away around areas that are dirty and full of decaying matter.e The decay does not register on tests because the cyano is uptaking those nutrients. Small amounts growing here or there and receding is somewhat normal even in an old system, but to get to the root of this tank-wide issue you either need to clean the sand bed (like potentially rinse it outside of the tank or replace it) OR just keep siphoning until it exhausts whatever resource it is feeding off of. It sort of is a nutrient issue, but not an issue of nutrients suspended in water. Theoretically, if you just let it keep growing for a while without any new food it would boom and bust, but in a running tank that's not practical. Option 2 will solve this but it may take a while.

This is why chemical treatments and nutrient control won't work. It's not something you're putting in, it's that the sand was full of life that died in the bag at petco or whatever warehouse it was in and now all that decaying matter is a resource leaching ammonia into the tank which is being utilized by cyano before it enters the water column and gets used by nitrobacter (the cycle bacteria that eats ammonia).

this tank has been running for over a year I think was posted previously. I could see that in a newer tank but any dead matter in the sand has surely been converted by now

 

[NickyReefs]

Cyano blooms and doesn't go away around areas that are dirty and full of decaying matter.e The decay does not register on tests because the cyano is uptaking those nutrients. Small amounts growing here or there and receding is somewhat normal even in an old system, but to get to the root of this tank-wide issue you either need to clean the sand bed (like potentially rinse it outside of the tank or replace it) OR just keep siphoning until it exhausts whatever resource it is feeding off of. It sort of is a nutrient issue, but not an issue of nutrients suspended in water. Theoretically, if you just let it keep growing for a while without any new food it would boom and bust, but in a running tank that's not practical. Option 2 will solve this but it may take a while.

This is why chemical treatments and nutrient control won't work. It's not something you're putting in, it's that the sand was full of life that died in the bag at petco or whatever warehouse it was in and now all that decaying matter is a resource leaching ammonia into the tank which is being utilized by cyano before it enters the water column and gets used by nitrobacter (the cycle bacteria that eats ammonia).

Yes, but this sand is almost a year old.. I've siphoned this sand multiple times for it to return very quickly. I also run 2 4k gyres on this tank alternating every 30 seconds, the flow is pretty strong across the tank and I never have anything besides this stuff on the sand.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Yes, but this sand is almost a year old.. I've siphoned this sand multiple times for it to return very quickly. I also run 2 4k gyres on this tank alternating every 30 seconds, the flow is pretty strong across the tank and I never have anything besides this stuff on the sand.

Could still be dirty sand honestly even if it is old. How this is I am not sure but there is some thread on here about rinsing old sand to solve this and it seems to work. Never had the issue myself but I can't disagree with the amount of success stories.

Maybe it got dirty after and for some reason those nutrients aren't breaking down in a way they need to or maybe it was stuff that died in there and took a while to break down? No idea but cyano grows where it can extract nutrients. It's all over detritus patches on wild reefs too.

 

[NickyReefs]

Could still be dirty sand honestly even if it is old. How this is I am not sure but there is some thread on here about rinsing old sand to solve this and it seems to work. Never had the issue myself but I can't disagree with the amount of success stories.

Maybe it got dirty after and for some reason those nutrients aren't breaking down in a way they need to or maybe it was stuff that died in there and took a while to break down? No idea but cyano grows where it can extract nutrients. It's all over detritus patches on wild reefs too.

So weird.. I keep this sanbed clean... just got home and attached pics... this is how insanely fast this grows. Once again I appreciate the info! I'm just so broken over this I'm really about to just give up. The countless bottles of bacteria, water changes, blackouts, hanna test kit reagents its getting out of control. I've been insanely meticulous with this as I can be. Maybee this just isent for me.

 

[NickyReefs]

Also I have about 10 Nasarious snails, a conch and 2 3" sand sitting stars.

 

[dwest]

I’m sorry but I haven’t read the entire thread. But a few things.

Your sand looks like mine when I had amphidinium dinos. I verified dinos with a $12 scope from amazon. I’m sure it’s more expensive now and there are likely better options, but I ID‘d mine pretty inexpensively. Mine were caused by stripping phosphates with GFO and algae scrubber.

I ultimately removed my sand bed and ran UV to help with my battle. A couple years later, I am adding sand back. To be effective, the UV really needs to be run from the display and back, at 1-3 times tank volumes per hour, with 1 watt UV per 3 gallons of water.

But to be honest, I would scope a few samples before I did anything. Again, sorry if I missed that you already did that.

 

[NickyReefs]

I’m sorry but I haven’t read the entire thread. But a few things.

Your sand looks like mine when I had amphidinium dinos. I verified dinos with a $12 scope from amazon. I’m sure it’s more expensive now and there are likely better options, but I ID‘d mine pretty inexpensively. Mine were caused by stripping phosphates with GFO and algae scrubber.

I ultimately removed my sand bed and ran UV to help with my battle. A couple years later, I am adding sand back. To be effective, the UV really needs to be run from the display and back, at 1-3 times tank volumes per hour, with 1 watt UV per 3 gallons of water.

But to be honest, I would scope a few samples before I did anything. Again, sorry if I missed that you already did that.

Thanks for the reply! Much appreciated. I was considering maybee scoping it. I did do the h202 test and the stuff bubbled up alot, wich then I assumed it was Cyano, but your probably right I should get a 100% ID on whatever this is. Just severely frustrated at this point. Any idea on what kind of microscope I would need?

 

[dwest]

Thanks for the reply! Much appreciated. I was considering maybee scoping it. I did do the h202 test and the stuff bubbled up alot, wich then I assumed it was Cyano, but your probably right I should get a 100% ID on whatever this is. Just severely frustrated at this point. Any idea on what kind of microscope I would need?

I bought the amscope below. It worked for me, but there are likely better options. I would first search for some microscope threads. There are many of them I believe.

The peroxide test was inconclusive for me. That’s why I got a scope. The problem with the peroxide test is that likely you will have some cyano with just about any other nuisance algae.

I’ve been a reefer for along time. I’ve dealt with dinos twice. Both times it really sucked. But, both times they eventually went away.

My advice is to ID them and deal with them OR if you can stand it, just let your tank ride. What I mean by that is feed your fish, do 10% water changes every week or so, and maintain calcium and alkalinity for your corals. Don’t add any other chemicals. Then be very patient.

I’ll try to add a FTS of my tank just about 2 1/2 years post dinos. Good luck.

AmScope-ETXWJ04 IQCREW 100X-1200X LED Kids Beginner Microscope Toy Set + Slides Preparation Kit​