Cycle Help

Morpheuz

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Hi all, first post here. I'm a returning hobbyist after being away for 10 years and I've run into a problem with my cycle. I have a Waterbox 20 AIO that was started at the end of March 2021. Approximately 15 lbs of CaribSea Life Rock, 15 lbs of Caribsea Arag Alive Special Grade sand, and a dozen or so ceramic bio balls in the center chamber. Fishless cycle; seeded day 1 with 4oz Dr Tim's one and only and I've spiked with Dr Tim's ammonia chloride per the Dr Tim's schedule. I'm at about 50 days into the cycle give or take and the cycle still has not fully completed. I have high nitrites that will not drop, like max on my API test kit (5.0 ppm+). I've also had my lfs test the sample with similar results. Late April 2021I reseeded 4oz of Dr Tims. I also respiked with ammonia chloride (to 2 ppm) to test if 2 ppm ammonia would be converted within 24 hours, it was not, more like 1 ppm was converted. I do have nitrates, around 60 ppm. So the tank has technically cycled but the conversion of ammonia is extremely slow and high nitrites are present. Not sure how to proceed here or what to do. I'm old school and would like to see my ammonia and nitrite at zero and able to convert quickly before adding any livestock. Thanks!
 
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Fish Think Pink

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Hi all, first post here. I'm a returning hobbyist after being away for 10 years and I've run into a problem with my cycle. I have a Waterbox 20 AIO that was started at the end of March 2021. Approximately 15 lbs of CaribSea Life Rock, 15 lbs of Caribsea Arag Alive Special Grade sand, and a dozen or so ceramic bio balls in the center chamber. Fishless cycle; seeded day 1 with 4oz Dr Tim's one and only and I've spiked with Dr Tim's ammonia chloride per the Dr Tim's schedule. I'm at about 50 days into the cycle give or take and the cycle still has not fully completed. I have high nitrites that will not drop, like max on my API test kit (5.0 ppm+). I've also had my lfs test the sample with similar results. Late April 2021I reseeded 4oz of Dr Tims. I also respiked with ammonia chloride (to 2 ppm) to test if 2 ppm ammonia would be converted within 24 hours, it was not, more like 1 ppm was converted. I do have nitrates, around 60 ppm. So the tank has technically cycled but the conversion of ammonia is extremely slow and high nitrites are present. Not sure how to proceed here or what to do. I'm old school and would like to see my ammonia and nitrite at zero and able to convert quickly before adding any livestock. Thanks!
Defer to others on Dr Tim use and help

Heard good things about Fritz TurboStart 900 if you wanted to consider alternate cycle products mid-cycle...

I've an established tank with good filtration and dose MicroBacter7 which helps with everything cycling products do, but I don't know that I'd cycle a new tank with it. I dose it because I feel my filtration could be better, but just not sure what additional tweak(s) I want to make/add.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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This cycle is done. fifty days is done, your tests are misreading. There are no reef tank cycles stalled at day fifty, there’s only misreading tests. If you change out water and begin, you’re cycled. I saved u a fifty page read w that summary above lol
 

Fish Think Pink

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This cycle is done. fifty days is done, your tests are misreading. There are no reef tank cycles stalled at day fifty, there’s only misreading tests. If you change out water and begin, you’re cycled. I saved u a fifty page read w that summary above lol
he has a 2nd opinion that his cycle isn't done... are you sure about that ?
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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You wouldn’t then use the same misreading tests to re test the system, use submersion time instead it’s far more reliable.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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For sure, send that second opinion here to this thread and if they’re right I’ll PayPal them forty bucks.



if they’re right, that a fifty day cycle can stall, then we need new cycling charts in the hobby. Api is not allowed to write the charts lol if it’s testing we use as the referee, we want digital readouts. Any Hanna nh3 meters that state a stalled cycled we w listen


*why would a random web dude offer a bounty on a stuck cycle


web dude cares about microbial proofing, that’s why.

Ill pay forty bucks to see the first truly stuck cycle ever noted online, this tank here can’t be that tank. If you added antibiotics everyday then all bets are off… assuming this is a reef tank with water in it for fifty days and an open top.


that link above left no room for outliers.


if we find a stuck cycle that can’t pass above conditions, forty bucks is an appropriate fee for falsely making a thread allowing for no outliers. We think its a completely reliable process.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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None. You are at day fifty


if I show you a fifty day reef that self cycled with no bac, no feed, just water circulating, would that sway you

(it usually doesn’t sway folks so why bother posting but if you want to see to know how bacteria work, and how that’s different from how they work in a retail setting, we can link in a nanosecond)


one thing is for sure, you’re four times over the stated wait time on the bottles.

who says we must trust an api kit to show accurate ammonia movement, based on google returns they seem untrustworthy
 
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brandon429

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Yes but they die of disease within eight mos unfortunately


even though your ammonia is controlled it’s time to consider fallow and quarantine options

but we can roll some corals for sure and a clean up crew and that doesn’t violate any preps. If you don’t want to qt, then yes it’ll carry fish if you’ve had common rocks and sand stewing this whole time (surface area needed to be prepped by this wait). Pls update us pics when you begin, pics decide everything in our cycling threads because a mis call results in a dead tank and pics of a happy tank reflect upon the cycle status fully. Cycling is very consequential in fact, a filter either works or it doesn’t, there isn’t a mid ground.

in our thread above, no reasonable variance in ammonia too much or too little halts that basal layer of life still forming, that our ending water change reveals.
 

Azedenkae

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Hi all, first post here. I'm a returning hobbyist after being away for 10 years and I've run into a problem with my cycle. I have a Waterbox 20 AIO that was started at the end of March 2021. Approximately 15 lbs of CaribSea Life Rock, 15 lbs of Caribsea Arag Alive Special Grade sand, and a dozen or so ceramic bio balls in the center chamber. Fishless cycle; seeded day 1 with 4oz Dr Tim's one and only and I've spiked with Dr Tim's ammonia chloride per the Dr Tim's schedule. I'm at about 50 days into the cycle give or take and the cycle still has not fully completed. I have high nitrites that will not drop, like max on my API test kit (5.0 ppm+). I've also had my lfs test the sample with similar results. Late April 2021I reseeded 4oz of Dr Tims. I also respiked with ammonia chloride (to 2 ppm) to test if 2 ppm ammonia would be converted within 24 hours, it was not, more like 1 ppm was converted. I do have nitrates, around 60 ppm. So the tank has technically cycled but the conversion of ammonia is extremely slow and high nitrites are present. Not sure how to proceed here or what to do. I'm old school and would like to see my ammonia and nitrite at zero and able to convert quickly before adding any livestock. Thanks!
Heyo!

So nitrite is non-toxic to marine fish, at least short term, even at concentrations we figured was high: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

However, I am also someone who'd want nitrite to read 0 24 hours after dosing ammonia too. Not because I don't believe in the article. I fully do. I had nitrite reach 5ppm or so and did not dose Prime or anything to detoxify it. Fish could not care less.

However, I think it is entirely possible for nitrite to reach high enough levels to start to harm fish. One study suggested 25ppm nitrite max for ocellaris clownfish, any higher and lesions and stuff could form. And 25ppm can absolutely be generated during the cycling process. That's around 9.25ppm ammonia, which if one say doses 2ppm ammonia five times and there was no nitrite oxidation, then yeah boom 25+ ppm nitrite.

So yeah, I totes want to see 0 nitrite as well.

With that said, I am starting to not believe in the necessity of 2ppm ammonia/day consumption to be 100% safe. May even be closer to 1ppm/day, which is where you are at.

Honestly, what I would do is do a 100% water change, just to reset all the numbers to 0. Then dose 2ppm ammonia and see how your tank processes it.

You can of course do serial dilutions to see where your nitrite is at now, but it is a pain to get a close estimation. Might as well make it easier on yourself to see how everything is going.

Good luck!
 
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Morpheuz

Morpheuz

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I did have my lfs retest using nyos kits and the results were very close to mine. Anyways going to do a big water change and get some fish going in QT. Thanks.
 
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brandon429

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Mb7 is probably the slowest cycler but given this long it wouldn’t matter anyway

post pics of the tank M curious to see layout


earlier had mentioned we didn’t need to see ammonia movement, only because we have tested timeline cycling by now and the tendency is for numbers on a test kit to disagree with the outcomes we show above which are ready tanks.


if you really want to test it with ammonium chloride for proof, we show a way to calibrate your test first. We cover how high to spike the ammonia, it’s not 2 ppm due to the kits we are using to measure.
 
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Cell

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For whatever reason, Bio-Spira competitors are more expensive, confusing and/or over complicate the process when Bio-Spira works great and is very simple.
 
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Morpheuz

Morpheuz

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I’ve let the tank sit for the last week and haven’t added anything aside from starting to dose Microbacter7 daily. As of this morning nitrites are still showing the same, purple on API test kit 2-5 ppm, ammonia 0, nitrate shows 60 but likely elevated from nitrites, dkh 9.1, ph 8.0, sg 1.026, phosphate 0.05, 77 degrees F.

Just started making rodi water and I’m going to do a 10 gallon water change early this afternoon. I’ll retest after and see where things are.
 

brandon429

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those entry level tests at times wont work in cycling they make you wait, and wait, and wait and wait


and then buy new bottle bac in a week

that being said, you could wait another sixty days and it still wouldnt hurt, you can't uncycle a set in cycle by starvation. no rush. they're ok for approximations, if they're reporting safe ammonia that's pretty decent of them as many would still be showing .5 or .25.
 
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