Cycle Stalled?

[Kasey Grohowski]

Nothing is odd to me in this hobby. If you're concerned that ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates are too high and stalling your cycle, nothing bad will happen from a 50% WC. I've done a WC in the past when my nitrites shoot above 5ppm during a cycle. Whether it helped moved the cycle forward or not, who knows, but it definitely didn't harm it.

That shouldn't affect the bacteria in the tank right?

 

[RandyC]

That shouldn't affect the bacteria in the tank right?

Not likely. The nitrying bacteria you're after colonizes on surfaces and not in the water column. If it's already been a few weeks of your cycle, the rock/sand/ceramic media should have most of the bacteria you're after now. Changing the water shouldn't reduce bacterial load by much, if at all.

 

[Siannach]

I’m in the same situation. Day 26 of cycle, and I’ve had Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates all in very high amounts since day 8. Ammonia still isn’t gone—about .25 , nitrites are as high as kit goes 5.0. Nitrates about 80. I’ve done two small water changes. Weird beige fluffy stuff on everything. I have 4 snails in the tank now,

 

[Tom McPhail]

Having the same problem. In my case ammonia is being consumed in <24h, which is a good sign. But my Nitrites have been high for 7-10 days now at least (off the Red Sea scale). I also did 2x 50% water changes and still have high Nitrites (and Nitrates). Frustrating though it can be it's really always just a waiting game in my experience

 

[ssster2020]

I have a similar yet different problem, I used a frozen shrimp, removed it after 3 days. My ammonia levels went to 1.0 ppm, Nitrite to .25 ppm, Nitrate to 5.0 ppm. I thought everything was happening, for the last 4 days the the Ammonia level is at 1.0, Nitrite at .25 and Nitrate at 0. I'm thinking of adding some more ammonia source either a little fish food or another shrimp to get the process going again. Good idea?
Oh and I added some bacteria at the beginning.

 

[TriggersAmuck]

Read my build thread. I have three points:

1. Between 2 bottles of Dr. Tims (purchased from different dealers at different times) and one last one of Fritzyme Turbo 900, only the Fritzyme (which is stored by dealers refrigerated) dropped the ammonia in the predicted timeframes.
2. Nitrite can go on for quite some time, especially in a dry-start tank. Like months. I started my build in September, and I didn't see true 0 levels until January.
3. If you are dealing with marine fish NO2 should not be a concern at typical aquarium levels. Read here: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

 

[brandon429]

There is a very neat rule of thumb to consider for this thread

cycles come in two ways: forum cycles vs convention reef cycles.

forum cycles will not allow a start until api shows zero ammonia, nitrite but some nitrate. any variance to that set is deemed a stalled cycle.


but reef conventions use different rules, and have done so since probably the 70's or 80's

they cause an entire room of instant-aquariums to be in place, and cycled, by a start date and not by variance

All the reefs posting in this thread have an option between the two approaches. if at any time someone feels they want their reef ready by a given date this week, we can just opt into the convention ruleset and have that done.

Dont assume convention cycles are weaker just because they're skipped, or 24 hours set...they're not weaker. Nobody trusts a partially cycled tank to house 50K$ in frags. we're the buyers, they're the sellers thats how reef cycling works.

so to flip the script, just opt out of forum cycling

above when nitrite was mentioned disfactored, that's part of how they do it agreed/nitrite no longer needs tracking.

neither does nitrate...we know its being produced by rule if ammonia goes down even if api doesnt measure any.

ammonia control is where its at. getting api ammonia to reveal true ammonia control vs a stuck cycle is second key detail to unsticking any stuck cycle.

 

[ssster2020]

Thanks Brandon429, personally I'm leaning that way, I've added an ammonia source, monitoring the ammonia level. Going to remove the source and see what happens.

 

[brandon429]

did you add bottle bac or live rock

 

[ssster2020]

Bacteria, dry rock, the salesman turned me away from live rock. I am not sure it was the right choice though, time will tell, he warned against hitchhikers obviously.

 

[brandon429]

with feed (shrimp decay) and bottle bac in place it will cycle, even if test kits dont indicate so.

how many days has this mix been stewing in the tank? day 10~ change out the water, add new water, and it will work/be cycled. all bottle bac is done in ten days + feed, its been tested by Dr Reef already. People report ranging numbers during cycles; that's just bc all the tests are inaccurate and they're testing wastewater with guess testers. we do opposite...

so we dont factor what measures people report regarding a cycle; only the known details of boosts applied, and submersion time.

 

[andrewey]

@RandyC has some great advice in this thread

 

[Bryn]

I like @brandon429 said, if ammonia test is changing color in the downwards direction, you are cycling. @RandyC also makes a good point about not losing bacteria in the water table.

So what was your ammonia today?

 

[ssster2020]

I'm back and roughly in the same place. I've been cycling this tank for 34 days. I did have an issue with a power failure which caused a loss of flow and poor temperature control for a period of time. I understand that this could have caused a delay due to O2 depletion and temperature shock to the bacteria. But when the situation was corrected I added a good pinch of fish food and Ammonia level rose to .2 and was down to 0 the next day. So I was fairly confident that I was still heading in the right direction. However since then no improvement to the nitrite level. Here are my sample results this morning
Salinity 1.025
Ammonia 0
Nitrite a dark 1 ppm on my red sea test, I then checked with API and it read 2-5 ppm

I continue to blind feed and this morning I added the last of some cheap bacteria that i picked up at my local pet store, not fish store I should add.

I live in a remote community but I am heading to a city tomorrow and could visit a fish store and probably will cause I'm still dreaming about actually stocking this thing. Are there any suggestions for something I can do to speed this up. More better quality bacteria maybe or should I bite the bullet and do a water change, against my better judgement. I know we have to be patient in this hobby and I can be but I'm old and would like to see this thing in operation before the virus gets me. LOL

 

[brandon429]

you are 100% cycled.

change all your water, add new, the fish you add will live. your testers cant indicate the true nature of your cycle, you're done. testing the wastewater isnt where its at

where its at is: change all waste water for new, that leaves your bac on rocks and surfaces, new water over it, add fish, coral, they live, its cycled.

 

[Regular_Reefer]

I just recently cycled my tank, I hit a “stall” and felt like I had followed the instructions wrong, I dosed some more bacteria (told by Brightwell it wasn’t necessary but also couldn’t hurt) a little less than two weeks later tank is cycled and showing numbers exactly where they are supposed to be

 

[ssster2020]

Thank you for taking the time to answer, I'm going to mix up some water and give it a go

 

[brandon429]

This thread here is why I think you’ll be fine, plus we want to track the outcome of your tank right there. That’s an unsticking the cycle thread I’m certain yours is ready

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

this 30 day plus boosts cycle is a spread eagle jordan dunk from the free throw after this many weeks (when all water is changed out for new)

the calls get a little edgy when we do it within five or seven days of setup those survive too, yours is well-set in place.

post tank pic if possible let’s see your attachment surface area

we have a thread right there to track and log cycling outcome errors, mis calls tank melts etc

 

[TriggersAmuck]

You want to start with hardy fish, but they shouldn't be affected by the low levels of nitrite/NO2. You need to add fish slowly (over months) to preserve the equilibrium of ammonia/NH3 produced and the ability of the existing bacteria to consume it, so don't go adding a bunch at one time. The tank's stability will continue to mature over time as the biodiversity increases (by hitchhikers on corals, addition of Coraline algae, etc). Congrats on making it to the first major milestone! Let us know how it goes.

 

[brandon429]

@ssster2020

hey I have a neat idea

let’s use your tank for first post in an updated cycling thread where we meld the fact no cycle stalls with the problems of testing and waiting for wastewater compliance vs using known establishment submersion times + full water change to signal a cycle ready

if you’ll take good pics, post your current setup even before the change, your thread will be perfect since we are predicting a safe start using the updated means. We get to track and predict your cycle before it’s confirmed, while your current tests don’t agree

the bet is your first animals not only live, but act normal. Burnt fish from ammonia dart, rub on objects, hover at the top panting for breath then die in a couple days. Happy, feeding fish aren’t swimming in free ammonia above safe zone conversion levels. Post pics so far of current tank