Cycle taking a really long time... water change?

z33_fan

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Hi, I am currently in the middle of cycling my first saltwater tank. It’s 45 gallons sumpless with live sand and dry rock, also Red Sea coral pro salt and RODI water. I started the cycle on March 8th by adding Dr Tim’s one and only, and his ammonium chloride as directed by a LFS. When I first added the ammonia drops, I did the recommended 4 drops per gallon and dosed it to 2.0 ppm. By day 3 ammonia was sky high at over 8.0 ppm, and stayed like that for about a week with no change, test kit was really really dark nitrites still 0. Kept testing everyday and didn’t add ammonia on day 6 because of the sky high ammonia. On day 7 I saw my first trace of nitrite, 0.25 ppm. Ammonia still at 8.0. Day 9 and my ammonia finally dropped to 2.0 and nitrite spiked to 2.0 also got the first sign of nitrate (maybe 5ppm). To this point ph has stayed consistently at 8.2. By day 13 March 20, ammonia is at 0.25ppm and nitrite has spiked to over 5.0 (at least I think, 2.0 and 5.0 is virtually the same to me, I am colorblind but my wife also has a hard time distinguishing these colors) and nitrite is around 20 ppm. These readings have not changed virtually at all since the 20th. Ph 8.2, ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrite 5.0 And nitrate is 40ppm. I have read conflicting information about doing a water change while cycling, so I’m reaching out for help to this awesome community.
 
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LordofCinder

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I waited 2 months for my tank to cycle, 3 weeks is not a really long time in this hobby. Your tank is still cycling, I think your on the right track, I would wait till ammonia drops to zero before any water change, just my opinion
 

Jekyl

GSP is the devil and clowns are bad pets
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Pretty sure it needs to be at 4ppm or lower. Others will chime in. When dosing the ammonia did you account for the water displaced by the rock and sand? I.E you may have 100 gallon tank, however your rock and sand take up 15 gallons (not actual numbers)
Therefore you need to dose for 85 gallons.
 

Jekyl

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Using API for ammonia? I see that .25 reading a lot. Dose your tank to 2ppm. If it goes back to 0 in 24 hours the cycle is good enough for a fish or 2. Do a large water change before adding livestock.
 

brandon429

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all you have to do is change about 80% of your water and you're done, can reef about two weeks ago. your type of cycle was studied in many huge threads last year its well doc'd. the current status of the wastewater doesn't matter, a water change reveals the working bioslicks stuck to everything, well fed, change and begin no further testing needed.

also

as soon as you add fish please update us here, we want to track this in three of the large work threads lol we make cycle calls off # of days underwater compared to the label on the bottle bac. Dr. Tims is ten day bac, though red sea and api might disagree sometimes. it still is ten days anyway.
 
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z33_fan

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all you have to do is change about 80% of your water and you're done, can reef about two weeks ago. your type of cycle was studied in many huge threads last year its well doc'd. the current status of the wastewater doesn't matter, a water change reveals the working bioslicks stuck to everything, well fed, change and begin no further testing needed.

also

as soon as you add fish please update us here, we want to track this in three of the large work threads lol we make cycle calls off # of days underwater compared to the label on the bottle bac. Dr. Tims is ten day bac, though red sea and api might disagree sometimes. it still is ten days anyway.
thank you for the help, everything I’ve seen has said the dr Tim’s cycle should be around 10-14 days so I started started worrying about the nitrites. I know api test kits aren’t the most reliable so I was planning on having the LFS test for me. I will definitely update when I add fish, hopefully this weekend I’ll pick up some clowns if all goes right.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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one disclaimer


all day long, for months and months I soapbox about cycling ease and the hidden danger of fish disease. its important to know that 80% of new tank starts wind up with marked if not total fish loss within the first 8 months if we do not apply quarantine and fallow, *or* a method you can see that preps against fish disease and is good enough to run the entire fish disease forum for any web board.

in our fish disease forum, new posts daily + build log times show a hidden loss trend in non-quarantined fish, so i'd be a mean jerk to not point out that

your tank can carry many clowns, and if they're actually from a quarantined place then there's technically no harm adding them if behavior permits. the bioload carry part is done after a large water change, no further testing needed even by the pet store the rule is firm and doesn't have outlier outcomes. you've literally met the entire plot time from any cycle chart so we're gtg.

you can still make use of your strong cycle: load it with corals, hq feed, water changes, be guiding out the bad growths vs permitting them, active reefing, then fallow the tank for 80 days then add the qt fish. that could work well
 
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z33_fan

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Pretty sure it needs to be at 4ppm or lower. Others will chime in. When dosing the ammonia did you account for the water displaced by the rock and sand? I.E you may have 100 gallon tank, however your rock and sand take up 15 gallons (not actual numbers)
Therefore you need to dose for 85 gallons.
I dosed it for 40gallons, this may explain why I had a crazy ammonia spike, I may not have calculated the correct amount of ammonia to add. I have about 50 lbs of rock and 40 pounds of sand and now that I’m thinking of it, it might hold less water than 40 gallons.
 

brandon429

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that happens commonly. check this one out, went to 8 ppm :)

and then after water change....a full reef:
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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see how the old rule was about waiting for the random wastewater to clear, plus it didn't factor in test kit misreads

the new way is about submersion timing dates, we can trust them. and full water changes to level out the variances we all impart.
 

Azedenkae

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These readings have not changed virtually at all since the 20th. Ph 8.2, ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrite 5.0 And nitrate is 40ppm. I have read conflicting information about doing a water change while cycling, so I’m reaching out for help to this awesome community.
The reason why there are so much conflicting information is 1. there are multiple ways people consider what cycling even means or involve, and 2. people misinteprete things but then pass it on.

With that said, you mentioned you were following the LFS' advice on cycling. What did they say re: cycling, what to dose, when, and when you know you are cycled?
 

moosevandyke

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I dosed it for 40gallons, this may explain why I had a crazy ammonia spike, I may not have calculated the correct amount of ammonia to add. I have about 50 lbs of rock and 40 pounds of sand and now that I’m thinking of it, it might hold less water than 40 gallons.
i just realized i did the same thing! whoops.
 

Appoloreefer

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one disclaimer


all day long, for months and months I soapbox about cycling ease and the hidden danger of fish disease. its important to know that 80% of new tank starts wind up with marked if not total fish loss within the first 8 months if we do not apply quarantine and fallow, *or* a method you can see that preps against fish disease and is good enough to run the entire fish disease forum for any web board.

in our fish disease forum, new posts daily + build log times show a hidden loss trend in non-quarantined fish, so i'd be a mean jerk to not point out that

your tank can carry many clowns, and if they're actually from a quarantined place then there's technically no harm adding them if behavior permits. the bioload carry part is done after a large water change, no further testing needed even by the pet store the rule is firm and doesn't have outlier outcomes. you've literally met the entire plot time from any cycle chart so we're gtg.

you can still make use of your strong cycle: load it with corals, hq feed, water changes, be guiding out the bad growths vs permitting them, active reefing, then fallow the tank for 80 days then add the qt fish. that could work well
I never quarantined my fish and never lost any. My lFS quarantines the fish and they have a very good reputation. I really believe that it depends on the LFS and your system for every tank is different and I know there are others on here that do not quarantine and have success. I feel you need to do what you feel works best for you for there is so many different opinions as to how one should do something. I did enjoy reading your post :)
 

Nerdist Aquarist

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Yeah, sounds like you went too heavy with the ammonia dosing. You can wait it out or do a water change to cut the Nitrite down. I recall Dr. Tim saying in a video nitrite at a very high level actually counteracts the bacteria in the previous stage, delaying the total time for the cycle.
 
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brandon429

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Here’s how non quarantine works: when we get self reports from no qt tank owners it’s perfect.

but


if those same proponents guide others to set up tanks, and log the results in collected links, all their fish die within 8 mos or most fish



source for claims: see any page in the entire disease forum. Try to imagine someone other than Paul being free of those statistics
 
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