Cycling a new tank- am I doing this correctly?????

[BContos]

I started a new tank on New Year's eve- 70 gallon with built in overflow that goes into a 20 gallon trigger emerald sump.

I added about 65 lbs of live rock (15 lbs already established from my LFS) and 50 lbs of live CarribSea aragonite sand. We purchased RODI water and mixed it at home. The sump has a filter sock with carbon, there is miracle mud and live rock in the refugium section waiting on the cycle to complete for me to add pods and algae, and bio rings in the return section.

The first day we added rock, then sand, and finally water. We have our pumps going, protein skimmer priming and wave maker on. I was told to add some fish food or shrimp- we added a little of both.

How long should it be before I start to see an ammonia spike and typically how long will it take to start converting? I understand the concept of the cycle I would just like a ball park on what to expect to see every few days/weeks in my parameters.

Thank you!

 

[MnFish1]

I started a new tank on New Year's eve- 70 gallon with built in overflow that goes into a 20 gallon trigger emerald sump.

I added about 65 lbs of live rock (15 lbs already established from my LFS) and 50 lbs of live CarribSea aragonite sand. We purchased RODI water and mixed it at home. The sump has a filter sock with carbon, there is miracle mud and live rock in the refugium section waiting on the cycle to complete for me to add pods and algae, and bio rings in the return section.

The first day we added rock, then sand, and finally water. We have our pumps going, protein skimmer priming and wave maker on. I was told to add some fish food or shrimp- we added a little of both.

How long should it be before I start to see an ammonia spike and typically how long will it take to start converting? I understand the concept of the cycle I would just like a ball park on what to expect to see every few days/weeks in my parameters.

Thank you!

1. You might//probably have already seen an 'ammonia spike' - if you havent tested for it - you haven't seen it.
2. What are you feeding the tank - to provide the cycle? In other words - you would normally feed something that provides ammonia to this type of tank (shrimp, ammonia itself, fish, etc etc etc)

If you have enough nitrifiers in your mud, etc - you may never see an ammonia spike

 

[brandon429]

15 pounds of live rock can uptake a lot of ammonia dont worry about the spike.

give it ten days wait and the other areas will be active by transfer, you're coming up. its not that fifteen pounds of live rock needs help from a bottle bac purchase, its that we don't need bottle bac because you aren't inputting an initial bioload that fifteen pounds of cured rock couldn't handle. that's several fish, and you don't have several fish in there yet. by day 10 of waiting the other areas are in play, this is a wait-timed cycle its not param driven

 

[Cell]

Live rock = skip cycle

 

[Garf]

I started a new tank on New Year's eve- 70 gallon with built in overflow that goes into a 20 gallon trigger emerald sump.

I added about 65 lbs of live rock (15 lbs already established from my LFS) and 50 lbs of live CarribSea aragonite sand. We purchased RODI water and mixed it at home. The sump has a filter sock with carbon, there is miracle mud and live rock in the refugium section waiting on the cycle to complete for me to add pods and algae, and bio rings in the return section.

The first day we added rock, then sand, and finally water. We have our pumps going, protein skimmer priming and wave maker on. I was told to add some fish food or shrimp- we added a little of both.

How long should it be before I start to see an ammonia spike and typically how long will it take to start converting? I understand the concept of the cycle I would just like a ball park on what to expect to see every few days/weeks in my parameters.

Thank you!

If the 15lbs of the “live rock” is actually from an established system, running, it will contain a certain amount of bacteria. This will be able to process a certain amount of ammonia immediately. Is the other 45lbs of “live rock” actually dry rock that looks live? A pic would be great

 

[LeftyReefer]

Agree with the others. With that amount of live rock and sand, you are pretty much good to go.
You may not see any ammonia spike, and I probably wouldn't expect to.

I'd go ahead and add a fish or two if you wanted.

 

[brandon429]

agreed cell

I know the 3/4ths majority is inert rock but that doesn't lessen the skill of the fifteen pounds aged

has anyone seen how much bioload they can pack into a nano with fifteen pounds of live rock? its:
-four thousand in top shelf sps corals
-two clowns, couple gobies
-assorted cuc from reefcleaners

-daily feed input

see how all that exceeds what the typical planned starting bioload is? the new tank dilution added also means that power above doesnt even have to work much. then in ten or so days, its all even in power long before the max fish load is in place.

skip cycle setup, but will also involve curing and po4 leaching of dry rocks which has no impact on the cycle it impacts the uglies phase.

this is a no bottle bac job, I like to point out cases where that applies. linking this to my no bottle bac used thread.

 

[brandon429]

I could see a case being made for bac here if the op needed to carry six tangs quickly, or the working bioload from a reef tank that exceeded fifteen pounds of carry-ability.

 

[MnFish1]

@revhtree curious. If I want to say something nice about a product or company does that go in vendor feedback? I was under the impression that other users could not comment if it was an actual ongoing dispute between the parties as compared to a ‘review’ or a discussion about a product. For example. I like the apex 20 others agree and disagree how is this any different than another

EDIT - sorry this was supposed to be in a different thread. .

 

[brandon429]

also to add: sequestration of the active surface area matters. we have seen 1% of these instant setups take the live rock and put it in a sump and the display gets all the dry rock

that means waste output from food and degradation and fish loading swirls around the front area not contacting active surface area until it reaches the neck inlet of the sump, that's not the same as instant contact when the live rock component is right up front for immediate contact.

 

[DaddyFish]

What was your Nitrate reading after initial setup versus Nitrate now? You should see a significant uptick in Nitrate on a newly setup tank that has been processing Ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrate. Watch for Nitrate production.

 

[MnFish1]

Live rock = skip cycle

IMHO - oversimplification.

15 lbs in a 20 gallon tank - with the same inhabitants? Yes
15 lbs in a 200 gallon tank - with more inhabitants? No way

 

[Cell]

IMHO - oversimplification.

15 lbs in a 20 gallon tank - with the same inhabitants? Yes
15 lbs in a 200 gallon tank - with more inhabitants? No way

Except in this case, the relevant details were in the original post. 90G water, 65 lbs live rock. Elaboration had already taken place as well by others. I simply added a comment to provide additional confirmation.

 

[MnFish1]

Except in this case, the relevant details were in the original post. 90G water, 65 lbs live rock. Elaboration had already taken place as well by others. I simply added a comment to provide additional confirmation.

so we agree. all good

 

[Cell]

so we agree. all good

Sort of agree? If we are getting technical, your example is also an oversimplification/generalization. 15lbs of live rock in a 200G system, provided other dry rock or bio-media to colonize, is going to seed everything pretty quickly and could indeed sustain a quicker than average stocking pace. Luckily, we had enough details here to know one way or the other.

 

[brandon429]

Cell this also applies: not one display tank cycle has ever failed on this site. In it’s history, since inception. I’m always hunting for links of a failed transfer cycle (and get too dark api or red sea as the proof, never physical symptoms on animals who’d be burned live time)

so as we operate on the risk continuum, it’s amazing to consider there isn’t the bad side of the continuum anyone can link. That means all ratios ever attempted in a transfer or dry start - have worked. Therefore, it doesn’t make much sense in context to lead with the risk vs the win prediction, based on linkable results.

of course there are many who feel a too green api test means fail. I don’t think that at all, I think when fish feed and act fine for days and days (until velvet) in clear water (all searchable examples) that’s a better gauge for tracking cycles than a test which isn’t passing the public sample for accuracy.


I have links myself where tank transfers had immediate death but there was always the sand in play, ie moving over some old sand to seed then the new fish die.

so in response we created pure sandbed rinsing to remove that risk, and cycle approaches that work on ratios and known # of days underwater for active surfaces in question, and as searchable results show the 100% success end of the continuum is a more fitting relay of likely outcomes.

old school cycle science implies risk that never happens in pattern, or even singlets I can find.

 

[Cell]

You cannot stop life!

 

[MnFish1]

Sort of agree? If we are getting technical, your example is also an oversimplification/generalization. 15lbs of live rock in a 200G system, provided other dry rock or bio-media to colonize, is going to seed everything pretty quickly and could indeed sustain a quicker than average stocking pace. Luckily, we had enough details here to know one way or the other.

Yes - we agree. I have transferred 1 tank to another larger one - multiple times - with the same bioload. I was only raising the point that if you multiplied the bioload by (lets say) 10 with 65 lbs of rock in 90 gallons - there would likely be a cycle.

 

[BContos]

Thanks for all the responses guys! I’m sorry I haven’t responded I have COVID and have been pretty down and out the last few days! I will attach my test results as of last night (day 7 of the cycle’s readings) . Bare in mind we still have 3/4 of a shrimp in the tank keeping our ammonia source going. My husband also ordered me 10 additional pounds of aquacultered (sp?) live rock from FL that will be here in a few days. There was a few spots in the display tank that I wanted a little more rock work and we figured more established rock would be better than more dry!
My concern is the pH- is it normal to see it this low while cycling? We have a good sized house (1900 sq ft) with two adults, 2 dogs and a cat so I don’t believe that it’s an over abundance of CO2 and because we live in Texas it’s way to hot to open windows and keep your AC on. We run a protein skimmer and I was under the impression this would keep our O2 levels high enough. I would prefer to know what is causing the problem so I can try and fix that rather than add buffers if possible!

 

[brandon429]

Those kits are useless in cycling, sorry to break the news. Buy seneye if you want to know ammonia, buy Hanna digital if you want to know nitrite and nitrate. Of all possible pH measurement tools available api is the last you’d reference. Buy the Orion digital calibrated probe Randy uses in the chem forum if you want to test pH.


also pertinent: you can also choose to not measure those params. If they were required to reef my 16 year old reef couldn’t exist, it’s tested only for salt levels and temp. If you search out api pics on five year old running reefs, twenty thousand readings look like that. Those readings are literally found on reefs long past the cycling phase, it’s why searches you can find for api accuracy are so poor. Even in the main forum, the poll for api accuracy has more doubt than trust. Any way it’s measured, those kits aren’t the ones you should reef with.

Im amazed that nitrite looks zero, those aren’t half bad api readings given the context !