Cycling and QT setup order/timing

[Nightwatch]

Could use some advise. I've been reading on various pinned posts about how to set up a QT and get my first fish in observation. But I'm wondering if I truly need to wait all this time.

Here is the background: I have a reefer 250. I've been cyclying with Dr. Tims and then also I added some addtional bacteria from another brand. Ammonia is coming down each day and Nitrites are in a full on spike - also a ton of Nitrates. Before I added the additional batch of bacteria, I did a 30% water change because my Nitrates were so high. They are back up extremely high again, but as ammonia is coming down Im hopeful my Nitrites will catch up and be down in the next day or two.

Once my nitrites and ammonia are at zero, my plan was to do a water change to get the nitrates down to a reasonable level. Then wait a couple of days and finally do another water change - but this time take the water from the display tank and fill up a 20 gallon QT tank with 10 gallons from the water change and 10 gallons of new salt water. Then Ill drop in a sponge filter that I've got in my display tank sump currently, add a HOB filter (Aquaclear) to the QT and monitor levels. If all is well, add fish to the QT and observe for 4 weeks.

BUT my concern is I just added the sponge filter to the sump of the display to collect bacteria yesterday. The QT tank guide says to leave it in their for 4 weeks. So do I have to wait 4 weeks before getting my first fish in QT, then another 4 weeks in QT? That seems a bit excessive. I guess I could add in some bacteria to the QT?

Thanks in advance for advise

 

[brandon429]

agree the seeded sponge will uptake bac from the tank water within 20 or 30 days, tested before thats agreed. but to get your quarantine tank ready even faster, same carry ability, you could just add half a bottle of seven dollar biospira and it'll carry fish day one. by the time you do water changes to guide out any rising ammonia, initially-dosed bac will have adhered to all surfaces by then and be classically cycled in far under 4 weeks. more like 4 days it all becomes adhered.

 

[mike89t]

No need to test for Nitrates till your Nitrite is low.

A lot of tests will give you false Nitrate reading with High Nitrites.

 

[Littlesquishy]

What is considered low nitrite?

 

[ClownWrangler]

What is considered low nitrite?

Zero. When a tank is cycled, there will be no detectable nitrites ever again unless your cycle crashes.

 

[Nightwatch]

So regarding cycling without fish, lets say I get my nitrites and ammonia to zero - but i want to keep the main tank cycled. Any idea how much ammonia I should add and how often to keep the display tank nicely cycled until I can move fish from the QT? There is nothing in there currently besides rock and sand.

Also - when is it safe to add back in filter socks and start the skimmer? I assume I can do that now that it has been multiple days since I added bacteria?

 

[brandon429]

you dont have to continually feed a cycle, the tank cannot starve as an open topped tank in the home. if that sounds unbelievable and you want to feed anyway, add feed, no harm there as well. its loading phosphate into your system with no animals that are entertaining to eat it though. same for ammonia, is algae fuel. trusting what bacteria do has benefits.

nitrite works two different ways here

in the quarantine where your salinity may be affected MNFish pointed out protection against nitrite drops resultingly in large threads on nitrite in the reef tank.


but for displays, where salinity is always where you and I would keep a reef's salinity, nitrite is 100% neutral to the cycle. it doesnt matter if you factor it in your start date, only ammonia control matters. any cycling specific bottle bac you add has a 99.99999% chance of legitimately making your display tank ready to carry fish. nice going on quarantine

Randy's article covers without exception the neutral nature of nitrite in the display tank, salinity holds strong there.

 

[Nightwatch]

OK thank you for the extremely helpful replies! So that will make life a lot easier not having to dose the DT with ammonia and monitor. I can just leave it until my QT is done - thats great!

One thing that is confusing me currently on the Nitrite side though is im still seeing very high levels, with zero ammonia. Im wondering if my test kit is old (I inherited it) because when I took my sample yesterday to a trusted LFS he said my cycle was nearly complete and Nitrites were low, but Nitrates were up of course. Recommended waiting a couple of days and doing a water change before considering cycled. But my Nitrites are more than 1PPM - turns bright pink on the red sea kit almost immediately after shaking. I think I'll get a new kit and continue to test and wait and probably take the sample to a different LFS.

 

[brandon429]

the way I'd handle that is: only test for nitrite if you feel you will be using hyposalinity in the quarantine setup

if you are, prepare for a long wait until it clears.


if the quarantine tank is not going to be low salinity use coming up, but normal salinity, then cease testing for nitrite per second rule above it'll help ease concern in a neutral parameter.

the limits in your quarantine are not bacterial they're surface area/attachment point limitations. If you add bottle bac to that quarantine the surfaces will take on bac within 2 days and your test kits may never comply with the truth. you need to be copying the same amount of surface area, and placement in the system flow, as other quarantine setups for your intended fish. if you're using the same bubbler sponge filter, or the same set of siporax spheres in bags in a huge hang on back filter, you can bet its enough surface area.

is an empty tank with only pvc enough surface area? don't know. I see more commonly hang on back filter setups, those are fine surface area.

 

[Nightwatch]

Nitrite is still off the charts in the main tank. Ammonia zero. I’m Going to start doing significant water changes I think. Don’t know why nitrites are staying high for so long. They’ve been over 1 for a week. Red Sea turns bright pink 1 minute after shaking.

 

[brandon429]

If you aren’t doing hyposalinity then they don’t matter, nitrite doesn’t matter in saltwater Randy’s article shows

see this fixed qt cycle example, yours isn’t stuck

Stalled Cycle?

20 gallon QT tank set up 30 days ago. I do not have a DT set up yet, just trying to get a jump on fish to add to my tank and make sure they're healthy and pest free right from the get go. Like I said tank was set up 30 days ago. Sponge filter and HOB filter running sponge and ceramic. Used...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[mike89t]

Nitrite is still off the charts in the main tank. Ammonia zero. I’m Going to start doing significant water changes I think. Don’t know why nitrites are staying high for so long. They’ve been over 1 for a week. Red Sea turns bright pink 1 minute after shaking.

The bacteria that convert nitrite are much slower at reproducing so it takes longer for the nitrite levels to come down initially. For my QT and Display Tank that I both recently cycled it took about 3 weeks before my nitrite came down significantly.

However I added my clowns when the ammonia was at zero at about 10 days into the cycle and I didn’t wait for the nitrite to zero out. They were fine and the nitrite caught up about 10 days later.

Here is how my nitrite leveled out recently on my display tank that I started up on September 6: