Cycling help - Nitrates will not drop - 3 weeks + in already

[anthonyc63]

Hi all,

Looking for some help along my way as i'm finally back into the hobby after a long break. In with a Red Sea Reefer Deluxe 170.

Began cycling with Red Sea starter kit Reef Mature. Followed all instructions down to the T. They said I should've already introduced a fish but I've been purposely waiting as I felt the parameters were too high. Currently at 0ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitrite, and 20+ppm Nitrate (I bought the newest Hanna Nitrate checker and stopped using it after 3 tests over 20 and went back to normal AFI tests for ease of use until i see the dang color drop below 20ppm). Here's a shot of my log. Some differences have been noticed from testing incorrectly and the ammonia/nitrite tests have been done with the AFI kit but using a screen shot of a color chart on my phone for the results reading so sometimes I can't distinguish exactly the color (if it's 0 or one level above).

Still cannot get my nitrates down for the life of me. Here’s updated readings. Added CUC 2 days ago, also have been doing the 5% water change once per week and today did a 8% water change and cleaned the hell out of the sump/overflow. Nitrates still >20ppm.

Any idea what may be causing this?

 

[HuduVudu]

The only way to remove nitrates is through anaerobic decomposition or export. If you are not doing either of these things the nitrates will not go down.

 

[Oldreefer44]

IMO before giving an opinion I would need to know if the chart also means that the tank has been up and running 24 days or if it is longer. Also, did you start with live or dry rock? What are your phosphate readings? IMO, Nitrates like yours alone would not stop me from going ahead and adding fish. Tanks normally go through phases, in fact, IMO they continually do so just like fauna populations do in nature so unless there is an out of control symptom such as GHA etc. I would proceed.

 

[John08007]

Your cycle is complete, once nitrite reaches zero you have enough biological filtration to break the ammonia into nitrite and the nitrite into nitrate.

As previously stated the only way to remove the nitrate is through water changes or if you have a refugium the chaeto will consume the nitrate, or several other filter methods.

 

[anthonyc63]

IMO before giving an opinion I would need to know if the chart also means that the tank has been up and running 24 days or if it is longer. Also, did you start with live or dry rock? What are your phosphate readings? IMO, Nitrates like yours alone would not stop me from going ahead and adding fish. Tanks normally go through phases, in fact, IMO they continually do so just like fauna populations do in nature so unless there is an out of control symptom such as GHA etc. I would proceed.

I started with Dry Rock waltsmith 2.0. Never tested Phosphate but I do have a Hanna Checker for it, just didn't bother with it yet. I can test that in a few minutes.

I just found it funny that the nitrates will NOT go below 20 whatsoever not even by a drop.

Your cycle is complete, once nitrite reaches zero you have enough biological filtration to break the ammonia into nitrite and the nitrite into nitrate.

As previously stated the only way to remove the nitrate is through water changes or if you have a refugium the chaeto will consume the nitrate, or several other filter methods.

As per Red Sea Marine starter kit I was doing 5% water changes, roughly 2 gallons - today I did 5 gallons. No change. I was debating on getting some mesh from home depot and putting it in the sump to be able to drop some cheato in it. This sump is tiny.

Effectively, you are saying that this point life can move on, add fish slowly, etc?

I ran out of the Red Sea algae control which stated do NOT stop dosing until 0-2ppm as the denitrifying bacteria will die out and essentially fail to continue to lower nitrate. Is that a lie? Do i need to both buying another bottle?
As you can see I also stop testing Ammonia as I’ve been reading that the AFI tests will never show 0 and it’s impossible to tell the color difference between 0-.25ppm.

 

[anthonyc63]

Here’s a tank shot.

 

[HuduVudu]

I ran out of the Red Sea algae control which stated do NOT stop dosing until 0-2ppm as the denitrifying bacteria will die out

Ok, this was a good chuckle for the day.

 

[anthonyc63]

Ok, this was a good chuckle for the day.

I felt silly writing it out but I figured no bad questions right? I do know the only way is essentially via export but I can’t grasp how big of a WC I need to do to get the nitrates lower. 20+ ppm is still high in my opinion. I’ve been out of reefing for years now. Trying to back into the swing of understanding all the dynamics.

 

[The Tang Police]

I felt silly writing it out but I figured no bad questions right? I do know the only way is essentially via export but I can’t grasp how big of a WC I need to do to get the nitrates lower. 20+ ppm is still high in my opinion. I’ve been out of reefing for years now. Trying to back into the swing of understanding all the dynamics.

If your nitrates are 20 and you want them to be 10 you need to change out half the water, if you want nitrates to be 5 you need to change out three quarters of your water. You could also get some some macroalgae to consume it.

 

[HuduVudu]

I wouldn't get stuck on nitrates. They aren't really as important as people make them out to be. Plus we are measuring one point in time. We can't really measure the input and output of nitrate all we get is a snapshot of the balance between.

Nitrates aren't going to impact your fish. So if you are planning on adding fish you should be fine.

 

[HuduVudu]

If your nitrates are 20 and you want them to be 10 you need to change out half the water, if you want nitrates to be 5 you need to change out three quarters of your water. You could also get some some macroalgae to consume it.

This isn't quite correct, because there is an input of nitrate, and an output no matter how small, to the tank constantly. At the MOMENT you make the water change what you say holds true, but in the moments after the water change the nitrate input and output will change the value that is ambient in the water column.

 

[anthonyc63]

IMO before giving an opinion I would need to know if the chart also means that the tank has been up and running 24 days or if it is longer. Also, did you start with live or dry rock? What are your phosphate readings? IMO, Nitrates like yours alone would not stop me from going ahead and adding fish. Tanks normally go through phases, in fact, IMO they continually do so just like fauna populations do in nature so unless there is an out of control symptom such as GHA etc. I would proceed.

Update:
Phosphate Hanna Checker read 0.00ppm.

PH Read 8.62 off Hanna Checker as well.

If your nitrates are 20 and you want them to be 10 you need to change out half the water, if you want nitrates to be 5 you need to change out three quarters of your water. You could also get some some macroalgae to consume it.

This isn't quite correct, because there is an input of nitrate, and an output no matter how small, to the tank constantly. At the MOMENT you make the water change what you say holds true, but in the moments after the water change the nitrate input and output will change the value that is ambient in the water column.

Who's on 1st who's on 2nd?

Is that generally the way Nitrates work? In theory if my nitrates were 50 and i did a 50% wc you're saying they would be 25 then? I will be doing full blown fish/mixed reef so I'd like to atleast get them to <10.

At this point I was simply looking for the "okay" to get fish in and a few frags. It's sunday now so it'll have to wait until next weekend but going to see a local reefer and grab 2 baby clowns and probably 5-10 small frags.

 

[HuduVudu]

Is that generally the way Nitrates work?

Many things in aquariums work this way.

In theory if my nitrates were 50 and i did a 50% wc you're saying they would be 25 then?

Only at the exact moment the water change was done. An hour later it is not really going to be that and a day later it will probably be back to what it was.

I will be doing full blown fish/mixed reef so I'd like to atleast get them to <10.

Chasing numbers is a bad idea. The hard numbers people provide are inadequate to explain the processes taking place under the hood. Proper husbandry and tank stability will provide way better results than chasing numbers. This is most especially true with new reefers that don't really understand what the numbers truly represent.

 

[anthonyc63]

Many things in aquariums work this way.


Only at the exact moment the water change was done. An hour later it is not really going to be that and a day later it will probably be back to what it was.


Chasing numbers is a bad idea. The hard numbers people provide are inadequate to explain the processes taking place under the hood. Proper husbandry and tank stability will provide way better results than chasing numbers. This is most especially true with new reefers that don't really understand what the numbers truly represent.

Understood. I guess after enough time (aka water changes) Nitrates will slowly balance out as long as I have 0 Ammonia that is most important. I use Red Sea Coral Pro salt which has most of the trace elements. The key take away from this for me is upkeep maintenance and monitor every so often but not analyze 24/7.

 

[blasterman]

What happens with nitrate is bacteria in your tank consume and produce nitrate based on nutrient availability. As soon as you change out some water the bacteria just produce more, and the level returns.

It doesn't bother fish.,,,at least at your levels.