Cycling is killin me

[eqbal9947]

1. What kind of tests are you using? Are you sure you're doing it correctly?
2. When you first added Dr. Tims (the first day) - did you measure your ammonia?
3. What kind of bacteria did you use to 'start the tank' after adding the ammonia?
4. How high are your nitrites? And your nitrates?

Generally - after a month - you should be cycled 'no matter what'. So the most likely possibilities:

1. Testing error or bad tests (have you verified them)?
2. If you dosed Dr. Tim;s ammonia via the directions - you could have easily overdosed - which can kill certain nitrifying bacteria (or stunt them)
3. Nitrate and nitrite tests can interfere with each other and cause false results.
4. If your nitrite really IS high - it means your ammonia is being converted.
5. Nitrite is not toxic in saltwater.

Your post was not clear exactly what you were measuring - I'm assuming you added ammonia after the ammonia went from 1.5 to 0 in 3 weeks (which is quite long) - then you added more ammonia - and it went from 1.5-1.0 in 3 days (which is also 'long'.

Using salifert test kits
Added Dr.Tim’s and ammonium at 1.5 ppm
Salifert test kits and some crappy test strips both day I have high nitrites and Hanna and strips say I have high nitrates
And yes. 1.5 ammonia took about 3 weeks to get down to negligible and now 3 days to get down from 1.5 to 1 ppm.

 

[eqbal9947]

Put a pic of the tank up, if you can

 

[eqbal9947]

Dr time and 3 weeks later microbacter 7

What have you added bacteria wise

 

[eqbal9947]

I did this after like a month.
It should have been cycled as per Dr.Tims
I added that because I thought maybe low PH was the culprit as to why it was taking so long

Maybe this had an effect;

PH stability

Helloo everyone. I am cycling my tank and am having a hard time getting PH to 8.3. I bought seachem buffer and basically emptied the whole thing into my waterbox 220.6 and still at PH of 8.0 I dont think its a huge problem right now, but what should I use as a newbie day to day for when my fish...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Garf]

Ah, I remember this tank now. So you redosed ammonia? You’re gonna have to wait till it comes down or change a lot of water. I don’t actually remember seeing an alkalinity test result from you, and depending on how high it is, that may be a way to go anyhow.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Is there any flow in that tank?
I'd do a wc and wait it out.
Prob not what u wanna hear with a tank that size. Sorry. Lol.

I got nothing for bottle cycles.
But I do recommend the ghost feeding kicking the cycle or the addition of a clean piece of seafood.
Raw.
Let it sit a cpl days and remove. Do the wc after a cpl days. Bam rdy.
Cycling in a sw aquarium lasts up to 90 days. They have graphs on it.
D

 

[eqbal9947]

Well. I’ll be doing a 50% water change and if my nitrate levels get low enough and ammonia is at 0, I’m going to add the fish

 

[PeterEde]

My tank after 7 months
Cycled in 3 weeks using seachem stability
Ph 8.3
Alk 9Ammonia 0
Nitrite .2
Nitrate 18
My nitrate have been as high as 60 with 10 fish

 

[eqbal9947]

My tank after 7 months
Cycled in 3 weeks using seachem stability
Ph 8.3
Alk 9Ammonia 0
Nitrite .2
Nitrate 18
My nitrate have been as high as 60 with 10 fish

My nitrite is super high but a lot of the more knowledgeable people here say that nitrate is not a parameter that hurts fish. So if I have no ammonia and low nitrate. They should be fine

 

[PeterEde]

My nitrite is super high but a lot of the more knowledgeable people here say that nitrate is not a parameter that hurts fish. So if I have no ammonia and low nitrate. They should be fine

I was struggling with high NO3 for months with it as high as 60ppm
I now measure it at 18 last test but would still like to go lower.
I have found I have corals that prefer 30ish ppm. These have not opened since I've been in the 20ppm range. Just assuming that's the reason.
I put in 3 chromis at 3 weeks.

 

[Rmckoy]

My nitrite is super high but a lot of the more knowledgeable people here say that nitrate is not a parameter that hurts fish. So if I have no ammonia and low nitrate. They should be fine

As long as ammonia is zero . It should be safe to add fish slow .
Add one and wait a few weeks .

the only thing I’m reading that would point in not cycled decision would be the time required to process 1ppm ammonia .

 

[brandon429]

Peter, yours was a skip cycle reef using live rock. From day one.
the reason your api took weeks to agree is due to lag time from being nondigital, inaccuracy, shown here by comparison to digital means.

New Cycle - Seneye vs API

Hello All, Have just started to cycle a new DD ReefPro 900. Am using Fritzzyme Fishless food and Turbo Start and am 2 days in. I have dosed twice with Fishless food on the back of the seneye readings which are as follows: But the API result seems to be showing a different story. I`ve seen a...

www.reef2reef.com

the OPs tank is done cycling. avoid waffling at the start date vs being exact by not being too quick to override the ammonia drop date from a cycling chart.

Exact start date cycling run all reef tank conventions, three hundred reefs with no start date problems. Applying the science this reef tank would use to attend a reef convention carrying twenty thousand dollars in designer clowns and bounce corals: cycle is done. Time wait required: met.

(reef convention tankers transfer over live rock already coated in bacteria, those rocks are older than a cycle charts ammonia drop date and don’t lose the ability when transferred. Other people at conventions use bottle bac and do a one day setup, they dont use nh4 non digital ammonia kits in the decision process hesitating out to day twenty after the convention start date and they don’t test for nitrite.)


You would omit all nitrite testing from the matter, we don’t factor nitrite any longer in display cycles. The risk in you using outdated cycling science is its leading you away from fish disease prep.

 

[brandon429]

@Rmckoy hey we posted at the exact same time.


you made a resolute call, nice one I’ll leave my above post set as is to reflect my dismay in nobody being resolute in the start date, you were in your post agreed.


what regulates fish addition here isn’t ready date


it’s fish disease protocol chosen or skipped. If you want six fish, it can carry six fish, cycled is cycled. It means waiting this long underwater coats all surfaces in bacteria says any cycling chart. Only owners of non digital test kits debate cycling chart ammonia drop dates.

 

[MnFish1]

@Rmckoy hey we posted at the exact same time.


you made a resolute call, nice one I’ll leave my above post set as is to reflect my dismay in nobody being resolute in the start date, you were in your post agreed.


what regulates fish addition here isn’t ready date


it’s fish disease protocol chosen or skipped. If you want six fish, it can carry six fish, cycled is cycled. It means waiting this long underwater coats all surfaces in bacteria says any cycling chart. Only owners of non digital test kits debate cycling chart ammonia drop dates.

A lot of people - including myself suggested that the tank was probably cycled. It was a valid discussion - to point out the issue about test accuracy, Dr. Tim's dosing is not always perfect etc. I'm surprised that you're not concerned about the nitrate of 160. I would not just say 'this tank is ready'. In fact - don't you think it might be a good idea to do some water changes? The only other comment is the test strips are notoriously inaccurate, and a low Phosphate (i.e. 0) - will also delay a cycle. So to the OP - did you happen to measure your PO4?

To the OP - here is a calculator that will help you decide how many water changes you want to do - based on your current level - and the desired level.

Effect of Water Changes Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the effect of repeated water changes on the concentration of a given substance.

www.hamzasreef.com

 

[Aqua Man]

My nitrite is super high but a lot of the more knowledgeable people here say that nitrate is not a parameter that hurts fish.

What do you mean by Super High nitrites?? A small amount (1-2ppm) of nitrites would be ok.

 

[brandon429]

Missed MN’s post, agreed MN.

 

[brandon429]

Api and red sea nitrite readings

Hello, my api and red sea nitrite readings are very different, red sea seems to be around .05 and api around 1 ppm, which do i go with?

www.reef2reef.com

this is my newest latest favorite Randy post on nitrites. short and to the point, no pages of issue/ rare for nitrite discussions.


being able nowadays to completely forego all nitrite measure in display tank keeping is probably the most impactful change to cycling procedure since the dawn of the practice

it’s all about ammonia control and patterning already well-studied, ammonia control dates are found on cycling charts in biology articles. Cycling charts made by aquarists tend to be made from non digital nh4 ammonia color estimation plots, they’re not accurate.


I’m aware Dr. Tims says nitrites matter. The only way I can personally rectify the opposing claims between nitrites matter, your cycle is stalled vs don’t bother testing for nitrites is one comes from a sales website and one comes from a chemist not offering anything for sale. I don’t know how else to reference such a disparity in procedural advice. If there’s a nicer way to reference the opposing advice, please let me know.


I have been testing the technique of ignoring nitrite in all aspects of display tank management for reefs, it’s working great. I find in reading Dr. Tim’s works/website that preventing an upper limit nitrite measure is of utmost importance, these are conflicting advices from the top two procedural consultants in reefing. one of the titans claims are in need of update, one says don’t bother measuring nitrite and the other says if you don’t measure it, you could hit an upper limit that could stall your cycle (and by inference, prevent safe bioload carry within an exact start date option)


at no time in reef tank conventions has an invitee who paid thousands to be there bothered to measure nitrite as a factor of start date readiness. I must further infer that nitrite testing is only for buyers, not sellers. With it follows doubt and hesitation = buy more products to fix or prevent, a perceived stall.


this very thread is a nitrite stall


And then a recommend to buy / add new bac solely for that reason, I’m 100% sure nitrite testing in a display is buyer’s training at work.



test accuracy isn’t ever verified, because only one kit comprises all the nitrite data we get: api.


we infer that anyone who runs an api nitrite test has infallible data, is that right? Does the cycling public even have a way to know if they’ve hit two 1.0 ppm nitrite consistently? How’d api get from its reputation in ammonia reads to all of a sudden the infallible nitrite test

 

[Cell]

Are we getting posters mixed up here? The nitrate 160, if I'm looking at the correct post with the month long detailed parameters listed, was a different guy than the OP, and he had measurable nitrites at that time.

 

[brandon429]

agreed Cell. The very first poster should have been told: your cycle is done we no longer factor nitrites in start dates for more than one reason. Consider an overall fish disease plan as your stocking rate guide, the filter isn’t the limiting factor.


Peter Ede was commenting that his cycle too took 3 weeks, but in his cycling thread we covered he was using several pounds of quality pre cured skip cycle live rock with coralline on it. He had no ammonia control delay for three weeks, so the agreement here that the OP was on a delayed cycle didn’t come from any type of real stall, per his cycle thread. he had api .25, the classic not-stalled reading.


not any tank here, or ever posted to the site has made a convincing case of not being cycled after day ten wait in whatever arrangement they started with. All claims for a stalled cycle are: hey, my api is .25 or .5. and in this case solely a nitrite stall for the main issue.

 

[Aqua Man]

Quote from DR. Reef
I have seen fish twitch and act loopy in Nitrites at levels of 5 to 10ppm but never in Nh3 0.02 to 0.05.

From the other thread as that just got locked. Pg. 18 Seems that Nitrite could be toxic at HIGH levels.