Cycling is killin me

[brandon429]

Aqua that’s fair



the counter balance is: so is Kalk when it gets dumped in by doser error


nitrite poisoning won’t occur because no practice in reefing uses enough ammonia blasting to cause it, while at the same time no actions in reefing stress a biofilter to the point of nitrite backup to that level. Conversion of nitrite is so set that it isn’t going to get undone for the life of any reef tank. That’s the big picture way of stating it. Another way to state it is that if we never own a nitrite test kit ran on our reef display, no core data will be missing from every choice made regarding the overall care of the system.



if we don’t test it, as advised, everything continues as normal via natural control means we can trust.

advising to test for nitrite is advocating mistrust in cycling charts, while all along not being the author of new and accepted variable cycling charts.

 

[eqbal9947]

Just checked ammonia and it’s at >.015 to 0.25
I’m changing water and adding fish today! And yea, very confused but going with Brandon’s knowledge
Thanks all!

 

[Aqua Man]

nitrite poisoning won’t occur because no practice in reefing uses enough ammonia blasting to cause it,

Might be occurring more than we think. If the directions are followed on Dr Tim’s ammonia, an overdose of ammonia IS happening. Most have found that the drops are not accurate and is over the 2ppm recommendation, following the directions.

 

[eqbal9947]

Might be occurring more than we think. If the directions are followed on Dr Tim’s ammonia, an overdose of ammonia IS happening. Most have found that the drops are not accurate and is over the 2ppm recommendation, following the directions.

Mine came to 1.5ppm

 

[vetteguy53081]

Okay
I’ve been cycling for a god dang month or more
Added Dr.Tim’s Ammonia went to 0 from 1.5 after 3 weeks and nitrites will not go down after waiting for a month
I added more ammonium chloride to verify that cycling was taking place and it’s gone down from 1.5 ppm to 1 ppm in a span of 3 days.
I’ve been told I can add fish but not sure if I can when nitrites won’t convert to nitrates.

Lat thing to be concerned with is Nitrites. Unless SKY HIGH, little significance oppsed to freshwater. Likely your tank is cycled. Why is it called a cycle? Because the tank will go through three phases: ammonia will rise and fall, then nitrite will rise and fall even quicker, and lastly nitrate will rise and fall. Once Ammonia reads 0 and Nitrate is less than 20ppm, the cycle is complete and livestock can gradually be introduced. The bacteria population will increase with the new bioload, processing waste and converting it to nitrate rapidly. However, it is important to note that overloading the aquarium with too many fish initially can exceed what the bacteria can handle. This is why it is best to add new fish slowly over the next few months. The bacterial levels will adapt if you don't overload the system with too many mouths to feed.
How long does the cycle generally last? Using the three test kits to measure results daily, you'll likely see the process takes 14 - 21 days.

 

[MnFish1]

Are we getting posters mixed up here? The nitrate 160, if I'm looking at the correct post with the month long detailed parameters listed, was a different guy than the OP, and he had measurable nitrites at that time.

I think there are a lot of things mixed up lol. But - you are correct - the post of the nitrate of 160 was not the OP. But - that person did not always have measurable nitrites when the nitrate was 160. Instead the nitrite increased slightly a day or 2 after adding more ammonia a couple times - and then - as expected - dropped to zero.

I guess I (reviewed the OP's posts again) - am still not sure what the nitrate in the OP's tank actually is. The thing I think people sometimes miss (and I agree with Brandon) - is that FOR THE MOST PART - within a month of adding bacteria a tank should be 'fish ready' from an ammonia standpoint. If you're still measuring nitrite - especially super-high nitrite - there is either a source of ongoing ammonia - OR - a testing error.

So - I'm going to give my opinion of 'new cycling science'. I would put in bottled bacteria, fish on day 1 and use a Seachem alert badge to make sure that free ammonia is not rising. When I have done this - I tend to perhaps overstock - so I use a higher level of bacteria than in the directions. In 20 years or so - I have never had a problem. I would not worry about nitrite at all - and I would measure nitrates after a couple weeks. I would have no qualms adding coral to the tank within a week. (perhaps not the most expensive SPS)

My opinion on test kits - most people say 'API tests are inaccurate - use xxx'. The problem is that again IMHO, the reason there are more reports of 'stalled/problem cycles' using API is that my guess is that many more people use API than all of the others combined. When they have been compared head to head - they are all pretty much the same.

 

[MnFish1]

Are we getting posters mixed up here? The nitrate 160, if I'm looking at the correct post with the month long detailed parameters listed, was a different guy than the OP, and he had measurable nitrites at that time.

What I was trying to say in the first response - is that all we know from the OP is the nitrates are 'high' - we do not have a number from them - or even IF they are high since they are using test strips.

To the OP - Can you get a different set of ammonia / nitrite / nitrate test kits - and post the results? Not to debate - but because I think it will be extremely interesting from an outcome standpoint.

 

[MnFish1]

Lat thing to be concerned with is Nitrites. Unless SKY HIGH, little significance oppsed to freshwater. Likely your tank is cycled.

Agreed - there is no tank thats going to have a toxic level of nitrites. BUT - if the nitrite test is CORRECT - by definition - there HAS to be a source of ammonia - Right. And IF the nitrite test is positive - it means the nitrate test MAY be inaccurate.

From another thread:

Probably because of rather high nitrite levels in your "trouble" tank. Because the construction of these tests - nitrite is a major interfering ion in the nitrate measurement.

 

[MnFish1]

Just checked ammonia and it’s at >.015 to 0.25
I’m changing water and adding fish today! And yea, very confused but going with Brandon’s knowledge
Thanks all!

Best of luck. I'm going to strongly suggest that when/if you go get fish - before you purchase them - you have your tests re-verified at the LFS - with a different test kit. As I've already said 'your tank is probably cycled'. But - the old saying 'measure twice/cut once comes to mind.

 

[PeterEde]

Peter, yours was a skip cycle reef using live rock. From day one.
the reason your api took weeks to agree is due to lag time from being nondigital, inaccuracy, shown here by comparison to digital means.

New Cycle - Seneye vs API

Hello All, Have just started to cycle a new DD ReefPro 900. Am using Fritzzyme Fishless food and Turbo Start and am 2 days in. I have dosed twice with Fishless food on the back of the seneye readings which are as follows: But the API result seems to be showing a different story. I`ve seen a...

www.reef2reef.com

the OPs tank is done cycling. avoid waffling at the start date vs being exact by not being too quick to override the ammonia drop date from a cycling chart.

Exact start date cycling run all reef tank conventions, three hundred reefs with no start date problems. Applying the science this reef tank would use to attend a reef convention carrying twenty thousand dollars in designer clowns and bounce corals: cycle is done. Time wait required: met.

(reef convention tankers transfer over live rock already coated in bacteria, those rocks are older than a cycle charts ammonia drop date and don’t lose the ability when transferred. Other people at conventions use bottle bac and do a one day setup, they dont use nh4 non digital ammonia kits in the decision process hesitating out to day twenty after the convention start date and they don’t test for nitrite.)


You would omit all nitrite testing from the matter, we don’t factor nitrite any longer in display cycles. The risk in you using outdated cycling science is its leading you away from fish disease prep.

There are still many an old timer not willing to agree. the science says otherwise

 

[brandon429]

all aquarium conventions are made by relocating rocks exactly like yours, to an exact start date

for 30 years, and nobody has mini cycles. They use a different ruleset than the buyers use is how they pull that off, with their most expensive animals ready to be carried by the rocks moved.

your api reading after converted to nh3 was not stalled. The living things in your reef lived from day one because live rock skip cycles

heres your skip cycle thread

My day 4 test results

Aquarium testing Day 4 Ammonia. 25ppm Nitrate 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm PH 8.0

www.reef2reef.com

heres about thirty other skip cycles like yours, your rock was cured pet store rock, it always skip cycles. I notice you began quarantining after that first mixed fish challenge, what you experienced is in line with the successions we see in ready tanks and have mentioned. Good job on quarantine, most won’t circle back to that at all.

A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

THE GOLDEN EXAMPLE OF A SKIP CYCLE DAY 1 REEF https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/ read that entire thread before you read ours. that's the heart of skip cycling. Everything we do going forward in this thread reflects on that ability above, in the #1...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

See how simple and timely all cycles are? Anyone who says one stalled simply does not convert their ammonia readings into nh3 (see kit instructions) or they’re measuring a param we don’t factor any longer- nitrite


stalled cycle posts come from tanks where life lived just fine in the certainly not ready tank in question, that’s a concern since an uncycled tank can’t carry any life—it dies from ammonia burning.